Recording: The right to housing

Right to housing - Transcript

AMY: Thank you so much to all of you for joining us today. My name is Amy Persson die in the interim Pro Vice-Chancellor of Social Justice and Inclusion at UTS. 

I would like to firstly acknowledge that for those of us in Australia, we are all on the traditional lands of First Nations people. I want to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation in which our lands are campus down. It is where I am joining today. I like to pay respect to Elders past and recent, acknowledging them as the Traditional Custodians of knowledge of this land, they also acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the country you're joining us from. 

It is my pleasure to co-host today's event with the Human Rights Law Centre and we are joined by such a great line-up of speakers. Kate Colvin, Danny Faddoul, Professor Jessie Hohmann, Tyler and Raghav Motani. I'll introduce each of them properly in a moment. 

Onto today's discussion. I don't want to spend too much time on the fact that Australia is experiencing a housing disaster. The vast majority of you know this, and you are interested in what we can do about it. But the impetus for action has never been greater in this country. So, I do want to explore this briefly. 

Housing affordability in 2024 is the worst on record. Social housing has been run down for decades, and over 120,000 Australians are living with homelessness. Our most vulnerable communities have been hardest hit by Australia's growing housing crisis. Unstable work, rising rents, leading to a lower quality of life for young people, older women, people with disabilities in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in particular. 

Australia's housing system has become a game of haves and have-nots. Increasing intergenerational inequality means in a large number of cases, only those who inherit wealth from parents are able to afford to own property. Further widening the gap between rich and poor. 

Surely, not a situation we want to find ourselves in in one of the luckiest, richest countries in the world. Everyone should have a safe, secure and healthy place to call home, regardless of their postcode or bank balance stop but this is not the reality for too many people in our community. 

While there is intense public debate on housing, it is too often dominated by numbers and prices. I'm looking forward to hearing from each of today's panellists about what needs to be done to make the right to housing a reality for everybody. 

It is my pleasure to introduce them each now. Kate Coleman is the CEO of Homelessness Australia, the national peak body for homelessness in Australia. Kate has extensive experience in senior management and policy and advocacy for social justice including housing, homelessness with policy and justice. Welcome, Kate. 

Professor Jessie Hohmann is a Professor in UTS Faculty of Law and a world leading expert on housing is human right. Her work has included lobbying the United Nations to hold governments to account for the right to housing, and campaigns with international housing rights and homelessness and government organisations. Welcome, Jesse. 

Tyler is a young queer person who has always been passionate about the rights of young people, particularly those with experience of disadvantage. focusing on housing and security, mental health and family violence. Welcome, Tyler. 

Raghav Motani is International Students officer at the UTS Students Association, wary advocates for the rights and well-being of international students. Beyond governance and policy advocacy, Rago has been actively involved in addressing the housing crisis faced by international students. Welcome. 

Last but definitely not least, Daney is campaign manager for the human rights law centre where he its advocacy for an Australian chart of human rights and freedoms. A powerful tool to help prevent human rights violations from occurring and a jewel for people and communities to challenge injustice. Welcome. 

I am going to start with Kate. Can you give us insight into homelessness in Australia, are the different kinds of homelessness and had the people experiencing it changed in recent times? Thank you, Kate. 

KATE: You so much, Amy, thank you for that warm introduction. Just acknowledging I am joining from Wurrundjeri country and pay my respect your elders past present and emerging. 

Look, the situation around homelessness just keeps getting worse. It is the worse now than it has been in living memory because the situation in the housing market is just so challenging. As people know, we have had rent rise after rent rise, we have not record low vacancy rates, and that has squeezed more and more people into homelessness. 

The incidence of homelessness is creeping up the income spectrum. 10 years ago, you would be expected that almost everyone he was experiencing homelessness was on an income support benefit. But the number of people who are on waged incomes that are still becoming homeless is increasing. I mean, it was at 9% before COVID and is now up to 12% of people using homelessness services have a waged income. That shows how it is creeping up the income spectrum. 

To give you a sense of who homelessness impacts, I think there is often this community perception that it is just about people who are sleeping rough. Actually, family homelessness is actually the sort of biggest group of people who are experiencing homelessness. 

In the past year we had more than 88,000 parents and children coming to homelessness services, and just did some media over the last couple of days for homelessness week showing that one third of them, at the last contact with the homeless service, or still homeless. What are reflexes that homeless services are just completely overwhelmed. There is not enough crisis accommodation to go around, there is very little opportunity to rehouse people once they have lost their home if they are on low income. Finding a family and you home that they can afford in this rental market is almost impossible. So people get trapped in that situation of homelessness. 

I will just finish off because you ask about different types of homelessness. Often people think about rough sleeping, is only about 6% of people who experience homelessness are roughly big. Often people are in really overcrowded housing or in places like boarding houses, caravan parks or couch surfing. Homelessness and is not just about having a roof over your head having a home. Having a home means having control over the place you live. 

If you are couch surfing and you don't have any control over that environment, you are considered homeless. It is about having a dwelling that is adequate and meets basic community standards. If your place is covered in mould and you are sleeping in a caravan park, might technically have a roof over your head but it is not home. Likewise, if you're living in a situation of violence then your home is not safe and not actually a home. 

Those are different circumstances that we would also consider homelessness. Thank you. 

AMY: I'm just going to stay with you for a moment. That is pretty incredible that it is 6% of homeless people are rough sleepers. Using part of the challenge is how invisible the 94% arty policy and decision-makers? Imagine a world in that 94% were also visibly on our streets. 

Is that part of the work that needs to happen? Making the situation, 94% more visible and tangible for people that hold the levers of power? 

KATE: Absolutely. I think one of the things that happens is that the reason often that people are not rough sleeping, and a lot of the people that become homelessness is because of experience of violence. People often choose, particularly young people, particularly women, choose not to be rough sleeping but end up in a situation that is arguably just as dangerous. 

They may couch surf with someone, form an intimate relationship with someone not to be on the sleeper in a situation with someone who is violent towards them. And up in a boarding house whether other co-residents in the boarding house and is a volatile situation with lots of violence. 

Sometimes people sleep rough because that feels like the safest place to be. Sometimes people avoid sleeping rough and end up in situations where they are exposed to violence. The intersection of violence and housing issues is incredibly present in terms of responding to homelessness, and understanding why some people are hidden and others are not hidden. 

AMY: Thank you. Tyler, that is a really nice way to bring you in. I don't know if nice is the right word. It would be great if you could talk to us a bit from your perspective, for supports that need to be in place for people experiencing homelessness? 

TYLER: Sure. I thought about this a lot and I think my first instinct is to say the solution is housing. Because it is. We need to build more of every kind of accommodation. But I think it is also true that we can do things right now to ease the burden of people currently experiencing homelessness. 

I think being homeless makes so many other aspects of life difficult, in ways that I didn't even think to consider before I experienced homelessness. Simple things like finding clean water and bathrooms and safe leases to exist without spending money that I didn't have. 

Especially in harsh weather conditions where public parks were an option, even if you are white and healthy and straight and for gender enough to avoid being moved on by the police. 

I think without more housing, which we can't access right now, we need more of everything else. Especially drop-in services, places that you can prepare your own food and sleep and shower and wash your clothes. All the things that make a person feel like a person. 

These services do exist sporadically but they aren't accessible if you are physically disabled, and they are always -- aren't always so. There is no way to find out that the place is accessible or they have facilities all the staff are supportive or if there is heavy drug use. Also, that book was probably printed six years ago and the services are at least two hours away and apparently, no one answers the phone anymore so you don't know if they still exist. 

When you are experiencing homelessness, you lose any control you have as a consumer and the person to choose the places where you seek support from. You need to go in blind hope for the best. And in my experience, it doesn't usually work out the best. 

Also need to recognise you know how many services you build if there is no way for us to know they exist, or if they do, or if they will be safe there. They were using books as a means of distributing the information and using websites for modern solutions. There should be a place where all of the services register so that we can access them and what they are and what they do. 

That being said, we need to build the services, because we need them. That is what I think. 

It seems quite remarkable that there is not an app or some kind of online way that we can navigate through the services that are available, and the people who use them indicate the answers to those things, are they accessible? Other Queer Family? Maybe something to UTS or other organisations or people on the call to pick up and think about going forward. 

Even if it's just a statewide app, services are responsible for the people and makes our lives so much easier. 

AMY: Thank you so much, Tyler. Raghav, getting housing as a student and a rental and an international student who finds themselves in the heart of a political storm. On one hand international students taking housing, on the other hand we know a whole bunch of international students are living in real housing and security. Talk to us about what you think is going on and experience with international students in the policy conversation at the moment. And when you see things progressing. And talk about what needs to change. 

RAGHAV: Thank you so much, Amy. As an international student, when you come to Australia for the first time, we are at a vulnerable state, most of us. We don't know what is happening, where we have to go, we don't know anyone in Australia. 

There are quite few resources, but being an international student, even the small help from someone, it keeps us safe and it becomes a big issue in Australia. Because a lot of people do tend to take it. And it happens. There are lots of resources and things that are present outside, but is it communicated well to international students? Do they know their rights in Australia in the housing sector? 

If you look at me, I looked at accommodation and I got a garden shed. It had a wheelbarrow in it, all those things. And is it just because we are trying to find accommodation that can put a roof on us. We have come here to study. 

Even at this date, there is people who will ask you, if you will be accommodation signed the contract now or we offer to someone else. 

Have full-time studies, and a job to live, and it is so much less time that you tend to take uninformed decisions and that's what's happening for international students. The first risk is taking a job, and then its proper accommodation. 

Because of this we have so much tension on your head, that whatever I get I will take it. 

When I was in the Ultimo area I went to get accommodation there, and I made a mistake, I just need somewhere to stay for university. And they end up agreeing to contract on what's up, not paper. There was – I did it because I was so tense with full-time studies and worried about finding accommodation, and the travel costs as an international student. So let's accepted on what's up and let's do it. And I suffered. There were a lot of things that happened that were not accepted as an international student and we had that as a month in an emergency. These are insecurities that we have been seeing. And we think it might affect. Solutions, as international students, we come to to 3 years for Max and then we study over here. The solution is resources provided by university and government, is it enough that when you are communicating, you need to understand that international students are not the same as domestic. Language is a huge issue over here, and reaching them is also a big issue. 

Communication is one where we have the sense of international incoming students. Getting that these are rights and understand that anything happens you can noise come to the University. Either emergency accommodations people are providing? In university? If an international student comes in with an issue and overnight sleeve accommodation, where do they go? And with international students, we don't know anyone over here. 

I've seen, when I came here last year I saw international students sleep on benches with their backs. There was one of the most heartfelt things that I saw over here, because we need to address this. 

And can they be supported financially? If you look at the issue, transfer issues. You have full tuition fees upfront to pay, and then you have accommodation fees. I was paying $400 a week to live in a share house, that was a cupboard and two beds in a room with two people, each person paid $400 a week. 

That is the level we are going in. And we are at such a vulnerable state that people take advantage of it. And people need to understand what their rights are as an international student, and as a university and a government we need to step forward and put those communications and have those workshops for the incoming international students to save that this is mandatory you need to look at this, these are your rights and this is what you need to do something happens. 

AMY: Thank you so much, Raghav, there are excellent suggestions for universities I think in a lot of what you just said. 

I want to go to Daney and Jessie. The issue around considering housing as a human right. I think a lot of people in this session want to understand, why would that mean? If we start thinking of it as a human right, how does the perspective shift the current debate on housing? Danny, I will go to you first, and then to Jessie. 

DANNY: Thank you for that, I come from the land of the Darug people today. It is to shift the conversation from the compartmentalised focus from numbers and a technocratic conversation to putting people at the heart of the conversation. People are part of the conversation right now to that extent, but it's a human-interest story. What we want is for people to be fundamentally the heart of the conversation, but more importantly for people to be the heart of decision-making by governments. When they consider the new law, and the policy and provide a service, people being at the heart of it, that is something that will mean they get credit decisions from the government. People having the credibility when that rights are reached, which happens so frequently when it comes to people's access when it comes to people's choice to call home. And getting the decision-making, having decision making all the time, and getting the media spotlight to cover the particular issue, and something that happens all the time and not just when it's politically hot, and something that isn't in the heat of public conversation. 

AMY: Jessie, do you want to chime in and add to that? 

JESSIE: Yes, I would. My response comes from what Tyler and Kate have said. Tyler, you said that – you link the experience to being home, having a home, the things you need to feel like a person. You asked us, I don't know what my rights are? And this is the question. We don't have strong rights to housing, we don't have the right house to Australian law, but we have international law and the Australian people haven't made it possible for international people in Australia to claim that right. 

For me, human rights, like Tyler said, they focus on us on the agency and equal dignity immoral that we are equal human beings. The start of the conversation about how we live together well in community, and that is why the conversation as a right to human rights powerful to me. So, we need to ask what it means to live well together and had us and contribute to that. The core of the housing is international law, and having obligations in Australia as a place to live in peace, dignity and security. 

To me that goes to the heart of human right about a place to live in peace and dignity, and to be equal and that is the power to the right of housing. 

How it shifts in the current debate is – I agree with Danny, we hear about the housing crisis, and it's always somebody else's problem. The economy is bad, interest rates are bad, or its not a good time to change things. All the real estate. And it is your responsibility, government of Australia, to give us a fair society, and we need you to take responsibility for a fair housing system. For me, the thing that is powerful is cutting through the noise about pudgy buildings and we need to go straight to the heart, the state, is responsible for this. And it's hard for them to face up to that. 

AMY: I will stay with you, Jessie. Either other countries to enlist better, and doing what we just described. 

JESSIE: The housing crisis he said, have we seen the examples, its global and has been experienced everywhere. What that means is that we can look internationally for exciting responses. 

Scotland has a national housing plant, on human rights, and they are bringing the international right housing into domestic law at the heart of that and they are pivoting on the idea of ending homelessness as a first priority and getting an accurate family of living by getting the international into domestic law. Canada's have a new national housing strategy, and this is built around the right housing at the core of it. The Canadian approach is more affordable rental housing, and has been critiqued because they haven't put enough money behind it but the concept is great, and if any. But here cost money but it's a great concept. South Africa is the great example for the right to housing, and they enshrine the right to housing is a constitutional right, which you could approach the courts to in court. 

It has been a powerful tool for those contesting a lack of housing in South Africa. Some leading advocates who take these cases to court have basically evaluated and said that most people who approach the courts get, in the end, or sometimes after a protracted process, or they sought in the beginning. So it's been very powerful and yet, it is thought to be quite sensitive to the balance of power between the different branches of government. 

Finally, it is interesting that you are talking Kate and Amy about it in homelessness and what it would look like if we can see that. France is an interesting example of that because a lot of protests and Kent encampments on the river Seine about 15 years ago, along with lived experience and sustained NGO activism work around the right to what was a non-enforceable right in the French Constitution, and applied enough clinical pressure to turn it into an enforceable right. 

There are a lot of interesting examples we could draw on if you want to look outside Australia and see how it is done. 

AMY: Thank you. I would ask one follow-up question. If in Australia we were contemplating legislating rights around housing, you do that federally and state level or both? 

JESSIE: I might pass that over two Daney. 

DANEY: It is both because we have a system of divided responsibilities at state and level federal level. The state is involved in housing although the play some rolls behind it, and the state level is involved in regulating tendencies as well as the provider of the vast bulk of the public housing that is there as well as contracting community housing providers, social housing. The answer is you want both levels of government to have it. Most importantly of all, there is a role to be played in local government as well. 

To give you an example in Victoria, a Victorian council wanted to criminalise people being able to sleep in their cars. It was thanks to the homeless person's legal service which is part of the inequity Centre, using the Victorian Charter of rights, and that policy reversed and at council level. You want the situation with the right to housing across the board to ensure there is no situation of right to housing being considered in some aspects but not in others, and also, you get a situation where all tiers of government are working together to make sure that right of housing is a reality. Most efficient way of doing that, as well as the clearest and simplest ways, is the human rights act, state levels and policies and services in one of the federal level to cover policies and services as well. 

AMY: Thank you so much. Kate, I might bring you back in on that issue. How high on your agenda is legislating rights around housing, and what with this practically change, do you think, for the people you and your organisation are working with? 

KATE: I think would make an enormous difference. I was here to pleased to hear Jesse mention the Scots example because that is a high water mark. For me it is thinking about how the legislative right translates into housing plan. It is when you think about progressive realisation. We have the right to housing and legislation and then you have a plan that steps out how the government is going to progressively achieve that right, because you can't… It takes a while to build housing, you can't achieve that overnight. 

One of the things that I really like about the Scottish approach is that they have come back for review and they have a sort of continual process and focus on this. They have made some errors along the way and they have gone "that is not working, what we need to do". One of the errors they made, a sort of focus too much on everyone has to be off the street. A lot of people overnight ended up in crisis accommodation, BMB, then you end up with thousands of children across Scotland living in hotel rooms. No cooking facilities and for extended periods. Then when their process of review, they were like "what we need to do is build a lot more social housing!" Then they have got this really massive building program to deliver a lot more searching housing and getting really, really making a difference and really having a good result. 

That is what I would like to see happen in Australia. 

AMY: Tyler, do you want to comment on this issue as well, from your perspective. This idea of legislating housing as a human right. Is that something you think would improve the situation for people experiencing homelessness? 

TYLER: I think at this point, legislating a right to housing is the only way we can move forward. I think we have been stuck in this housing crisis for since before I was born. People have been suffering in homelessness and in poverty, and we can't continue to progress as a society when we have people sleeping on cardboard mattresses under bridges. 

I think a stable home is a base that all humans need to be able to build a life and the future, and with out it, we can't deal and we can't learn and we can't grow as people. 

I think we have a right to more than just a house, we have a right to stable housing that is suitable and appropriate and adaptable and changes as we change and our needs change. For young people specifically, that means support to help them remain housed. For people who have experienced homelessness for protracted periods of time, transitioning out of homelessness is something that we don't talk about very often. But being homeless is a trauma, and transitioning out of homelessness often requires extensive support. I think that is really important as well. 

AMY: Thank you so much. We have got some fantastic questions coming through. One from Chloe. "In your opinion, how can we add more political pressure on our politicians? The housing crisis has persisted for years and it has only worsened in recent times, despite protests and increase awareness towards homelessness. It feels like our politicians are not filling the political pressure, despite use of public outcry.". 

Before I throw to the panel, there is a related question I thought was interesting from Sue. "It seems to me it is only when more well-off Australians have been affected by homelessness that it comes to matter. This housing crisis started 20 years ago but society didn't seem to notice because it only impacted the lowest income quintile. It was only a poor person's problem. It is only now that the middle class and middle some people are impacted, a lack of affordable housing, that it matters?" 

Daney, I'm going to throw to you to cover that issue of political pressure. I spent some time with the New South Wales government last year and the housing minister. I can assure people that she was feeling political pressure but also, was really strongly motivated to act, and there was record spending on social housing in the New South Wales budget, there is also additional commitments in the federal budget. So certainly, I think governments are responding, but I have no doubt most of us think that response could be even greater and more urgent. Daney, or do you think? 

DANEY: I think it boils down to a simple point, which is when this conversation is technocratic, the solutions aren't clear and therefore, this problem just never seems to get resolved in a clear, straightforward way, and the demands have been made in government aren't clear and straightforward enough to say OK, that makes sense and off we go. 

At the end of the day, this public discourse we constantly have a situation of winners or losers. Some folks are winning and some are losing. Unfortunately, for many of the technocratic elements of this conversation, losers are usually well resourced, have ready access to megaphones unfortunately, the locations in the country which are quite politically sensitive. 

From our end it is about making sure we bring this debate to people, something which is grounded in which something that everyone can relate to, having solutions which are tailored to the needs of people, which is what legislating human rights with right to housing does. It puts that right at the centre of the public discourse and in the political discussion. An decision-making, as well. 

Finally, getting to a situation where solutions are tailored to what people need, as opposed to trying to get people to understand macroeconomics. If we can get to that point, where political pressure becomes constructive and politicians don't feel like I'm being bombarded by stuff which I can't fix, do something else, I can do that and off I will go for implementing the policy.? Thank you so much. 

AMY: Did you want to add anything on the issue of government pressure, maybe in relation to how some of the international examples of come about? 

JESSIE: In some ways, I maybe have a blanket approach because I am a lawyer. My main tool is to use the law and the law is not everything. Actually, the law is a very big part of a human rights struggle, talking about human rights law, national legal standards that protect people and guarantee those things we think are due to every person as a human being. 

One of my answers would be that the law itself is a very strong stick and carrot because you can say look we have got this law, you need to comply with it, it is a clear standard and a signal to governments that this is where the buck stops. This is what is not negotiable. We are going to make a legal standard, hard legal standard and it is no longer up for debate, you must comply. 

So, the link between the law and politics is one of the reasons why a human rights act is something to work towards. 

AMY: Thank you so much. I want to bring in Kate also on that question. 

KATE: That is a really great question and I think that is why a few years ago, a whole bunch of housing and homelessness organisations got together and really talk through the back that there were all these policy conversations about government about how to fix the housing crisis, but it wasn't moving forward. What we need to move forward is there to be a big public movement. That is where the Everybody's Home, I put a link in the chat, the body's campaign was created to put pressure on government. 

I would say now the conversation has shifted. Governments are feeling political pressure on the housing crisis, so it feels like now is the opportunity where we can make some progress because they are feeling the pressure. But there is still a need to be more pressure. 

Then there are particular issues within the housing crisis as well. Tyler has put in the link for the Home Timed campaign, which is issues around youth housing. 

I wanted to say one more thing because there was also the question about this only being an issue for when it starts to hit higher and higher income household. That is true and very frustrating. Part of the challenge we face as advocates is making sure that doesn't pull solutions in the wrong way. We have used the political momentum gained from this homelessness now heading higher up the income spectrum, but not create or end up with a situation where the solutions that are offered only benefit those households that are higher up the income spectrum. 

We see this time and again where governments freak out about people not being able to afford their own home and so they throw money down the toilet of homeownership schemes which are completely useless from a policy perspective. They only benefit people who can afford to buy a house anyway but it makes them maybe be able to do it a little quicker. 

Meanwhile, they are not putting money into addressing much more serious forms of housing crisis like people being homeless. There are some really great challenges they have been named and I think really important part of the conversation. 

AMY: Thank you. Jessie, do you want to add to that? 

JESSIE: It is such a good point as well. It is one of the things that… We need to be really clear if we are pushing for a right to housing in Australia that this is not an opportunity to protect your investment property. This is a place to live in peace, dignity and security. A place to live and a place for everyone. So we need to make sure that if we are going to enshrine a right to housing in Australian law, that it never loses sight of the fact of the housing as a human right, not housing has a wealth generating machine or as an investment. I think that is going to be a challenge in Australia because that is a deeply… The discourse of housing is deeply ingrained and we need to push against that. 

JESSIE: I will go to a related question from Alanna. Mention the people from Victoria, a city of Queensland have the ability to use human rights acts or international obligations to argue for housing, under for example safety. Knowing that we don't have a right to housing in any jurisdiction. Danny, this is probably for you. 

DANEY: Thanks for that, yes. What this does is make sure that people are not evicted into homelessness. That's the biggest advantage of the human rights in Victoria, a city and Queensland does. In Queensland the domestic violence was going to be evicted from social housing from her ex partner breaching the lease. Queensland rights with tenants Queensland was able to contest that that she and her children were not affected from the house, ultimately. Similar stories apply in Victoria as well. People evicted into a homelessness used human rights in the Victorian Charter to contest that. The critical thing about that is that is what they managed to achieve through the rights of family equality before law and privacy. Obviously this writer housing and that becomes simpler. And broader people in public housing cannot be evicted. The writer housing what a dozen top that is the right housing as a positive right and service delivery. And that's why there is a national human rights advocate to have the situation of a positive application to have housing policy at the heart of it so that they can be better decisions and services going forward. 

AMY: Thank you, Daney. A question from Joe, they writes that a lot of older people are living in houses too big for them since children left, and its two parts for people to downsize and stain the community. Our government is considering freeing this for other families? 

I want to address living in houses that are too big for them. There are lots of wonderful examples, particularly in Western Sydney, where people host international students in a homestay environment, and it strikes me that that could be a much better way for an international student to get to Australia and Australian culture, by being embedded in a family home, rather than the situation described. What do you think? 

RAGHAV: Definitely I agree with you. There is a wonderful opportunity of a system called homestay that the government runs over here. However, I never knew that coming to Australia. Back in India I had to find accommodation, went to different websites but then I had no idea that this was going on. It was such a good initiative where I can go and be with people were hosting international students in the house. It's such a good thing, but the problem is, when I came to Australia and was understanding the housing, this is something that is provided. Why is it not being told to a lot of people? Why is it not shown with such a good initiative being provided. And one year later I was in Australia. I'm say such a good opportunity for people to meet different opportunities in Australia, and we help them out. I've left my house and I can explore the culture and many different people and help them and I want to explore this particular community. And if you are with the older generation, they can explain more things because they have the time to give you. Safety won't be an issue, because you are living with people who know Australia in the community and they are introduced to so many people. 

Safety is not a question. I am not being informed about these questions? My monopoly told that solutions are there? And we go and apply for those things. It is such a good initiative, and we wanted to bring it up earlier, but thanks for bringing up, it's such a good opportunity, and a lot of international students don't know about it. 

But yes, this is a good opportunity and communication really matters. Because they don't know what is happening over here. 

AMY: Thank you, Raghav. Jessie, do you want to chime in on this? 

JESSIE: Yes, and even more striking than those living in houses is remembering that the average size of the house is bigger than 30 or 40 years ago while families are getting smaller. But consensus night there were a million empty homes, not underutilised, empty homes. And they reminded us that you can't just take from us individuals and put them into housing, doesn't solve the problem because he has need to be adequate and appropriate. More than the idea of houses that are live-in by a small group of people that we could argue about whether the sizes to be, we have empty homes. And we could look at why that houses are empty. The reason that energy is because the housing policies from taxation to pensions encourages and rewards people for empty houses. Credit filters through whether this is a housing policy that is valuable or not. I do these policies meet the criteria for living in dignity and security or do they have another function and is it valuable? 

AMY: I have a related question from George, and Tyler, I would like to get your perspective. Housing advocacy groups looking into the 1 million empty bedrooms in Australia be converted or utilised in a living space for people in need. 

Is not a good idea for your perspective? Or is it risky? 

TYLER: Government mandated share houses is a risk. The government requiring you to put things in the house to house the homeless is a risk. Especially for me. I'm a person who has quite a significant history of trauma. If I had to invite a strange man into my home, that would not be appropriate for me. 

Are what Jessie was saying about a million empty homes, more than just homes, there are empty buildings and makes it interesting to turn empty nursing homes into crisis accommodation. And it prioritises people over buildings tomorrow, then we could turn those empty shopping centres and empty houses into the accommodation that we need to get young people off the street, People of colour of the street to get our homeless into beds. But, I think that requiring people to housing for strangers is a risk and not something that I would be comfortable with. 

AMY: And when it comes to addressing housing, in the last few minutes I want to finish with a question for everyone. Addressing the housing crisis in Australia requires a multidisciplinary approach. What is the one urgent action that each of you believes should be taken to address the housing crisis in Australia? Kate, I will start with you. 

KATE: Stuck on one through the course of it, I flip between them so I will break the rules. Investment in social housing is the one, but for a lot of people need to be the support as well. A lot of people need extra support to get and keep a house that is not available now. 

AMY: Daney, have you, what is your one urgent action? 

DANEY: It won't surprise anyone but to say implement human rights to housing with the human rights framework. What you want is to have that right there because it will have a whole bunch of solutions there, and there is a constant right that housing and thinking about people's right to housing when its comes to housing policy. As it comes along, there is a continuous focus on housing and people are at the heart of it. 

AMY: Raghav, your turn, the one urgent action? 

RAGHAV: First one, educate us as an international student, that's the most important thing. Second is to listen to us and include this in conversations and talk to us. We will give you certain insights. Educate us and talk to us, and try to take the considerations. It is only the government and the few organisations that can support and help us. We don't have any releases over here, and we can listen and understand our feelings so that we can be protected in Australia. 

AMY: I don't think it's too much to ask for universities to lift their game with schemes that are available and the rights with international students. So there's lots of people in the sector willing to take up and talk to their institutions. I imagine some universities do that really well, and some universities less so. 

I think we can crack on with that one. Tyler, over to you, one urgent action. 

TYLER: Bringing children and to the conversation nationally, with the more this year than ever before, MCM really started yesterday and the Victorian youth homelessness snapshot, and I recommend you look at it. I will link in the chart, one in three young people experience homelessness for the first time at 16 or under. And as a government responsibility and I would say that being homeless, we have miners who are too young to sleep in shelters because they can't get their parents consent. And the government agencies whose job is to protect them are failing. And we urgently need to legislate right around that, and there's the human rights that we worked hard on, and we advocate for 15,000 dedicated youth tendencies and attach support for 16 to 24-year-olds. That's something we're working hard on without the missing middle. We urgently need to protect our youth. We are nothing without the next generation, and they are drowning in a flood that they didn't cause. And it's our responsibility to teach them to swim. 

AMY: Thank you so much, Tyler. Jessie, I will give you the last word on this one, and urgent action. Court and law related. 

JESSIE: They are such great points, that I could shift in and say they are good points. But what I would say is that we need to start thinking about housing differently. We need to think about housing as a place to live in peace, dignity and not something to make money out of, but that is luxury, it's a place to live in dignity, and if we can we shift and reframe a conversation then that the starting point everything else can flow from that. 

AMY: Thank you so much, Jessie, and for everyone it's been a great pleasure and I really appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you so much to everyone online who joined us, I hope you gain something from the conversation, I can see that there are links and various resources and a lot to take away, thank you everyone I look forward to the next one and hopefully we will have progress on something that is deeply important. Thank you so much.