Recording: Pathways to open employment

Thank you so much for joining us for today's event.  Firstly I would like to acknowledge that wherever we are in Australia joining today that we're on the traditional lands on the First Nations Peoples.  I acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation upon whose ancestral lands the UTS City campus now stands.  I'm joining you from Wonga lands on the banks of the Parramatta River.  I pay my respects to the Elders past and present and acknowledge them as traditional custodians of knowledge and their ongoing connection to country and culture.  I further acknowledge the traditional owners of the country where you are joining us from and pay respect to their elders today.  My name is Phillippa Carnemolla, I'm an Associate Professor at UTS, and part of the UTS Disability Research Network.  And I'd also like to pay my respects and acknowledge the Indigenous ways of knowing and being, that inform the work that we do, including the work in inclusion that we do here at UTS at the Disability Research Network.  I would like to draw our attention, too, to the work of Dr Scott Avery, an Indigenous disability researcher, an advocate, and his work of culture is inclusion.  And I would like to start today's discussion today is acknowledging that culture is inclusion.  It is my huge pleasure to be welcoming you all today to the conversation, this conversation.  I'm delighted to be joined by distinguished group of speakers, Trevor Graham, Andrea Comastri and Tracylee Arestides,  who I'll have a chance to introduce you to properly shortly. First a couple of pieces of housekeeping to get us started.  Today's event is being live captioned.  To view those captions you can click on the CC that stands for closed caption, which is the button on the bottom of your screen in the Zoom panel.  We are posting a link in the chat now.  That will open the captions in a separate internet window if you prefer.  And if you have any questions during today's event type them into the Q&A box which you can also find in your Zoom control panel at the bottom and you can go in there and like other people's questions.  I'll have time to put some of your questions to our panelists later in the session.  And so we'll get started.  
So in Australia only 2.5% of people with intellectual disability work in open employment.  So a very low number.  Where people with and without disability work together.  The vast majority of people with intellectual disability over 25 are employed in ADEs.  Working in a segregated workplace on wages as low as $2.50 an hour.  And less than 1% of these trainees go on to work in the mainstream workforce.  But in Italy the Hotel Etico and 
Tacabanda Restaurant training programs are offering another model for social change.  Hotel Etico opened their Australian arm in Victoria in 2020.  Their program offers hospitality experience, including cooking, bar and table service and housekeeping roles for people with intellectual disabilities.  Worldwide 184 trainees have graduated the Hotel Etico program with 68% of them moving on to open employment.  Part of the original Hotel Etico in northern Italy, the Tacabanda restaurant's staff journeys are documented in Chef Antonio's Recipes for Revolution, offering personal stories and insights into this social model for disability rights. I'd like to mention here, too, that we're offering people the opportunity to watch this film at home for free until next Wednesday and we'll share the link for that now in the chat.  Today we're here to ask is this model, Italian and now Australian applied model a better approach to getting people with intellectual disabilities in open employment?  And I'm delighted now to go to our panel.  Trevor Graham is the director of the film chef Antonio's recipes for revolution.  He is a television producer and a director of factual programs with over 35 years of experience.  And as an independent, Graham personally produced, directed and executive produced some of Australia's most acclaimed documentaries for the ABC, SBA and a multitude of international public broadcasters.  His 30 plus documentaries are a diverse range of genres, arts, history, culinary arts and contemporary content and we're delighted to say, too, Trevor is UTS alumnus.  Welcome.  
>>  Hi, nice to join you all.  Thank you.  
>>  Pleasure.  And now we go to Andrea.  Andrea Comastri the founding director providing opportunity to people with intellectual disabilities as well as challenging the wider community to see the human and economic value of an inclusive society, but focuses on abilities rather than disabilities.  Andrea is a passionate believer of the social enterprise sector.  Thanks for joining us Andrea.  
>>  Great to be here.  
>>  And Tracylee.  A visit to the hotel in Asti...working, living and community was a perfect fit in Australia and with 20 years experience and as a parent of a young woman with down syndrome, she turned her commitment to being part of the team to bring this enterprise to Australia.  She's a founding director of the project in Australia.  Tracylee is a UTS alumni and at the AFDA.  Welcome Tracylee.  
>>  Thank you very much.  It is a real pleasure to be here.  
>>  You have all been involved with Hotel Etico and their approach of employing people with intellectual disabilities.  Can you tell us about your journey with them and why you wanted to be part of it.  We'll start with Andrea.  
>>  Sure.  Thanks Phillippa.  Well, I personally has been involved in the not for profit sector working in or around the not for profit, as a CEO, as a director or for the last five years in the philanthropic sector.  When I spoke met Alex and Tracylee, we were exploring opportunities in Australia to establish Hotel Etico in Australia.  I was immediately sold to the idea for a number of reasons: first of all because of my professional background and I thought it was a really winning model and a transformative innovative model.  And second because I had some personal history when I was a child I grew up in Italy for 25 years and at school one of my closest friend was a child with down syndrome.  He passed away in his late teens but that story remains with me forever.  And little did I know that eventually was going to... Which was great for me to getting involved.  And I have been working with team to establish the model in Australia.  Proud of what we've achieved so far.  
>>  Wonderful.  And Tracylee I wonder if I could ask you the same question, could you tell us your journey and why you wanted to be a part of it?  
>>  Well, as you said in your kind introduction I was contacted by Alex who is one of the founders in Italy when he was travelling in Australia on a family holiday and I was working for down syndrome New South Wales and nothing ever to be lost by having a cup of coffee.  I loved his explanation of what they were doing in Italy because it wasn't just about giving people skills, it was actually about giving the trainees, rotated through each of the areas, the business units of the hotel and then they were able to work to their strengths what they were good at, so it was really setting them up for success.  It had the added layer of being an academy of independence where they were living independent living skills concurrently with their work, so they could live anywhere afterwards.  It was supporting them in  working in the mainstream after their training, and also the trainees were front and centre, you could see them at the reception desk, behind the bar.  To me that was far more real in terms of being able to be part of the community, really part of the community, being seen.  To be seen.  And to be known and appreciated as well.  If you don't see somebody you can't get to know them, you can't get past that idea that they are different because they have disability.  And then seeing it in action in Italy was fantastic.  
>>  Wonderful.  And Trevor, I'd like to ask you the same question as well, you know, can you tell us a little bit about your connection and how you came to become involved with Hotel Etico and the documentary and why to be part of it?  
>>  As a film maker I come at it as a different perspective what Andrea and Tracy said.  It was Tracy who introduced me in the first place.  She told me about the hotel and she had met chef Antonio.  And she was suggesting it was maybe a good film to be made out of it.  My perspective when you're a film maker you're looking for a great story and looking for people who can participate in front of camera, let's call them characters for want of a better word, who was a rich story to tell.  When I went to Atsi, I met the staff and the trainees, and met chef Antonio and the hotel manager.  I fell in love with them all.  I fell in love with them, what they were doing, and I fell in love with the food, so my waist line grew considerably.  The reality is I wouldn't have made the film just on the base of them doing good things.  They are doing great things, they are creating real social change in action, but for me they are great people in front of camera with a great story to tell about how that social change is happening and how it is impacting them personally and why they are doing it.  They were all the special ingredients, if you like, that I needed to make up my mind to make a film there.  Well, it paid off.  And I think what audiences are getting out of the film is they see all of those things, they engage with the people and they see the social  that social change is possible on an ordinary human onetoone level.  It just requires people to take some action, to have some inspiration and come up with a methodology which is what chef Antonio has done.  So my challenge was to put all of that on screen and create an engaging and meaningful story for people to watch.  
>>  Fantastic.  Today's talk and today's discussion is really coinciding with some hearings from the Disability Royal Commission at least in the last couple of weeks which is working under the supported employment services award.  I think today is a great opportunity to talk a little bit about that.  And I wanted to talk to Andrea those services awards which can pay those rates as low as $2.50 how does that compare to your model?  
>>  I get a little technical but I'll try and keep it interesting and not too technical.  But basically the model we have in the first 12 months of our operation, as I said we opened in November 2020, in the thick of COVID, so in the first 12 months effectively we have adopted a model where our trainees through the Italian model are involved in open employment so they work with people without disability alongside from day one.  So there's no segregation in anyway.  They are employed under the hospital industry general award 2020 within the supported wage system.  What does that mean?  So we employ them for a period of 12 months, in effect, in reality the first group has been around for a little bit longer because of COVID because we had to lockdown for 4 months so they finish in a period of 16 months altogether, but it is a 12month program.  Within the first 3 months of the employment, they are assessed, and as you would know they are assigned a percentage of  based on their productivity.  And this percentage translates into  makes the pay rate translating to a percentage of the award rate.  So in our case of the hospitality award rate.  In our case, our trainees are first six group of trainees ranged between 40% and 90% within the supported wage system.  They are about  and they get reassessed after 3 months so the normal program they get assessed at the end of 12 months so they work with employers outside of Hotel Etico to help them gain employment outside.  In reality our trainees will have their reassessment actually in the next two weeks.  In the first 3 months of their employment, of their 12 month employment they're employed at a minimum of 8 hours a week as they become familiar with the system, with the model and with the business and familiar with their skills and their hours gradually increase over time to  also because we are a startup ourselves so we are actually expanding the model as we go ourselves in terms of business needs.  And then so at this stage we have 10 trainees.  Six are the first inaugural group, plus four of the new intake.  We have extend  we have doubled the number of trainees from six to 12.  So the 12 will be starting  it will be a complete cohort from the beginning of July.  The aim of the ethical program is to increase their capacity from day 1.  Wholistically we want to make sure they are successful in mainstream at the conclusion of the program.  What's important for us to say is we as a board have adopted recently a policy that will see us regardless of the SWS assessment pay them as a minimum 50% or more of the award rate.  So regardless of whether 10, 20, 30, 40% assessment, we will be as a minimum paying that 50% with the aim over the next 12 months to work really hard together as a team and within the, I suppose, constrained of making a startup business becoming sustainable actually moving beyond the SWS system and establish a system whereby we pay the full award wage.  That's our aim.  But of course you need to see that within the context of the financial sustainability of the business and we are working towards that because we believe in being that disruptive and innovative business as a social enterprise we can be and we think that's the best way of achieving that moving on from the supported way system.  And yeah, that's I think  hopefully that answers your question how the pay system works with us.  
>>  Yeah, there's kind of another part of the question, this question, too, which is, and I know a lot of people in our attendance might have this question, the transition into open employment.  So worldwide Hotel Etico transitioned 68% is what I understand.  And where people with or without disability that's where people with or without disability work together.  Comparative ADEs the rate seems to be at 1%. 
>>  Yeah, so that's exactly.  The differences.  So obviously as you understand this is our first inaugural group so we can't give you a comparative, we can compare to Italy has implemented the system but we set ourself the objective, with our funders, philanthropic funders that 68% moving on.  We believe we will be way above that.  In fact it is very, very likely that the current group will have open employment after they graduate.  And we are working very closely with employers outside of Hotel Etico to ensure that.  That is the key, that from day 1, as Tracy said in the introduction, they are front and centre of the business, and from day one they receive on the job training formal and informal to build their capacity to be hospitality professionals but also workers in general because obviously there's a lot of skills transferrable to any industry.  And in addition to that the independent living skills, because they live onsite in what we call the academy of independence.  And the level of developing of independent living skills that they develop from living onsite for the first time away from home with peers, with some support, and close to their work is immense and it is revolutionary.  And you see that in the confidence that they show on an every day basis.  So we have partnered with external employers, in the hospitality industry and we are working at the moment with them on providing work experience with them as they finish and they graduate.  So this current group will graduate at the end of June and before then they have work experience externally with Hotel Etico with our support.  And beyond that they will be offered employment opportunity from those same employers.  And we are hoping to find efficient financial support to be able to support them along the way as alumni of Hotel Etico as their work progresses within these several employers.  There's opportunities for them to work with us, but obviously that's a finite demand because of the business we are.  You can see the building behind me.  It is a small hotel, a 16 room hotel with restaurant and bar.  But there's a finite position we will be able to offer.  
>>  And I imagine, something we talk more about in the Q and A, it is about building  as much as about capacity building for potential of employers.  
>>  Exactly.  And that's what we are focusing on, yes.  
>>  Yes, great.  Now, this is a question for Tracylee and Trevor, a bit about the documentary.  So through documentary chef Antonio's...is ensuring the visibility of people with intellectual visibility.  And you mentioned this before Tracylee one of the reasons you were drawn to this model.  Why is this so important?  
>>  I'll go with this one first.  It is so important because if we are genuine about including people with disability and people with intellectual disability in our communities and our societies we need to know them, we need to know who they are, and if they are kept away in the back room folding towels or putting things in boxes, there is not that opportunity for them to be seen in the community, be known in the community and to get to know the community.  I had an experience with my daughter when she started working in a cafe in the suburb next to ours and I actually  this was after leaving school, and I didn't have a lot to do with it because her support worker picked her up, they did the job and came back.  And I noticed over the months that I would be shopping with her and people who I hadn't met and I didn't know who I knew, they'd say "Hey, how are you?  What's happening?  Lovely to see you."  She was able to build a whole separate, you know, social group, a whole separate social identity for herself apart from her family that really opened up a lot of stuff for her.  And yeah, we're serious about including people.  We should be serious about giving them, if you like, well, as chef Antonio says, a place at the table.  I saw it happen in Asti with all the trainees because they walk through, it is a medieval town, it is closed off with traffic.  All the trainees in their uniform walk through to the hospitality training college that they go to, they stop in at the local newsagent, they see people along the way that they know.  They are known and appreciated in their community.  And also, being able to know someone takes away a lot of the fear that I still think is evident in society particularly around people with intellectual disability.  
>>  And demonstrating how it is important in community to show how it is done as well and it can be done and is done.  That visibility is important as well for other employers to see.  Trevor, is there anything you would like to add on that?  
>>  Yeah, I think food is important.  
>>  Yes.  
>>  Once we're satisfied with our hunger, our desire to eat, have our taste buds satisfied, we feel happier, more content.  The restaurant is a place where friends go.  With family.  With lovers.  So to have that eating experience fulfilled by people who are living with an intellectual disability either in kitchen, cooking the food, preparing the food, making the food or being served, waited on, as you see Nicolo in the film someone living with intellectual disability, serving your wine, interacting with you, it is visibility as Tracylee has said, but I think it is also interaction, it is the opportunity for staff to interact with customers, and to also satisfy the hunger of customers who are feeling content and happy.  So I think it is all of those things.  For me what drew me to story and the people was that food was fundamental to what they were doing.  As chef Antonio says, he wants to change the world with his food.  He wants to harmonise the world through his food, through good food.  The other important point is the food has to be good.  Again, you can't just rely on the feelgood factor you are being cooked for and waited on by people with an intellectual disability.  Yeah, that's good but you're not going back if it is lousy.  The food has to be at a good quality, a good standard.  And it reflects the whole intention of the project, to create a good harmonised world through goodquality food, served and made by people with an intellectual disability.  It is sort of like a... 
>>  Yeah, thanks Trevor.  And Andrea I was going to ask your perspective on visibility based on experience in local community here in Australia where Hotel Etico is located and the importance of that visibility and what the outcomes of that has been?  
>>  It is transformative.  It is just  look, I spend generally Thursday and Friday up at the hotel, otherwise I'm based in Sydney, and I love having conversations with the local community that comes in to visit the hotel and visit the restaurant and drinking at the bar and listen on to the music on a Friday night and what it is like to live in a world that is that inclusive.  And you can see the transformation of the things they say.  The local community has totally embraced from first of all that they say we offer good food, good music, good drinks and just the place to be, right, but it is a place to be that normalises the collaboration and interaction of people with disability, and it is just really emotionally charged for me every time I'm up there because I see the transformation happening, for every person that walks through the door.  And you can read it on the comments online, and read it in the comments they leave in the visitors' books.  As Trevor says there is nothing better.  And as you hear in the film what the characters say, there's nothing better being around a table with a plate of food or drink in your head to exchange conversation and become close and understand what we are doing.  
>>  Yeah. 
>>  So it is evident every single day the difference we are making.  
>>  Trevor, how do you hope that audiences will engage with your film and what's the outcome that you'd like to see?  
>>  Well, first of all, to enjoy the experience of watching the film and engage with the people on screen, and also engage with the themes behind it that inform the film, which is about creating a better world, a more harmonised world where social inclusion is a natural thing rather than something that needs to be fought for.  The fighting is important, too, I'm not dismissing that, but we can all evolve to a better world where we don't take these things for granted.  So I want audiences to engage and appreciate the things behind the film, but, hey, in their own world engage with people differently, engage with people who have intellectual disabilities.  Seek it out.  Go to Asti, go to mount Victoria to the hotel and stay and experience it for yourselves.  I think they are the best things that can happen.  But you know change happens on a personal level in your own family, too, just being aware of the need for social inclusion in our society and not putting up bridges and creating division like our dear prime minister.  So, yeah, that's the intention.  
>>  A couple of  well, actually the next question I have here is really for Tracylee but you've answered this but you might want to add: what are the benefits of having people with intellectual disability working in open employment?  
>>  Well, you talked about  
>>  One of the first benefits that I can see is for people with intellectual disability to be included and to have that thing that we all need to, you know, have a role and to know the value of that role and to know how to operate within that role.  That would be the first and foremost benefit.  I did speak about the benefit for the broader community in getting to know people with intellectual disability.  Another benefit for people with intellectual disability in the open workforce is that it opens other work opportunities to them, and this came home to me when I was in Asti, and I was speaking through an interpreter because my Italian is rubbish, I was speaking to Nicolo, the head waiter, who swears going up and down the stairs because if you've waited tables it is one of the tedious things you can do is work in a restaurant with stairs.  And speaking to him who had waited tables for 6 or 7 years and I said you must really love your job here and he looked at me and said "No, I hate it.  Completely over waiting tables.  I would like to be a sommelier."  If he hadn't been waiting tables and kitchen he wouldn't know what a sommelier is.  He trained as a sommelier.  He's good at it.  Another great benefit is not having people with disability just stuck doing one thing forever is  it opens up other work opportunities as well.  
>>  And skill sets.  I would really lake to go to some of  we've got some really interesting questions come from attendance today, and it is one that I think is really important to ask the panel, particularly given the Disability Royal Commission and concerns people so many people have about supportive wage.  And you have described in detail, Andrea how that works at Hotel Etico.  Going further I have a question: why are disabled workers paid under the supported wage system?  Why aren't disabled people paid under the same award as nondisabled workers even as under a trainee award to develop their skills.  Is this a form of segregation?  Would any of you like to answer that?  
>>  I can start and I'm sure the others can contribute.  First of all thanks for the question, Linda.  Definitely the last adjective I would associate with that is segregation.  From day one they work front and centre in the hotel and they are the hotel and they participate in a completely open employment setting with the rest of the staffer.  In terms of the pay system, we are fully aware that our vision and our mission and our objective is to have a business that is self sustainable.  As I said we have been open about 16 months, that can support itself, even actually through philanthropy and donations as a fullyfledged social enterprise model that uses a business model to support open employment.  At the same time we also support the trainees in developing their independent living skills.  So it is a very wholistic type of approach for us.  We work within the current system and we actually go beyond it.  I said we have a policy that goes beyond the level of assessment that they have, and we are aiming to get to that point, and we believe that we will be, but at the same time we also need to acknowledge that if we did we wouldn't be open because we wouldn't be able to actually sustain the business in a way that can be sustainable and operate.  And we are still quite a while away and I'm very transparent from us being a sustainable business in our own right because we are relying on very generous philanthropic  that allows us to start operating but we are heading in the right direction very, very quickly.  So that's where we are at.  
>>  Thanks Andrea.  And Tracylee have you something to add?  
>>  Yes, I would like to add to that that Andrea mentioned the word disruptive and that's been one of the aims of this model and one way that this model differs greatly from the traditional ADE model is that we have no vested interest in keeping our trainees.  So our business model, per se, is not predicated on having a pool of low paid workers to keep us turning the dollars over.  The model has the hotel as a separate business unit that the trainees work within.  So, as I said, it is not in our vested interest in this model to hang on to a pool of low paid workers.  We want to get them skilled up and out the door and supported to be successful in their careers after they leave us.  So it is a very different model, and I think Andrea has covered quite well how we have come to start under that supported wage system model how we have, as a board, decided to work within that model and to limit the amount of time that we spend within that model.  I thought that was an important difference to make.  
>>  Yes.  What about have you done any work yet with potential employers?  You may have mentioned it earlier, Andrea.  
>>  Yes.  So we are working with the (inaudible) hotel in the Blue Mountains.  Many listeners, participants would know about.  A hotel in the city and a larger group at the moment that I can't disclose because we are in discussions.  But there is various interest.  As well as other smaller employers who are providing support.  We have a small board of people at the moment so it is good to have those sort of oneonone customise approaches, but we are building that network as we go.  And so we have other employers at the Blue Mountains that have shown great interest.  And supported of the Blue Mountains tourism, and other significant employers in the mountains.  But our catchment area is not just the Blue Mountains.  Our trainees come from as far as Bathurst and Roseville.  They are the edges at the moment.  So obviously we are keen to have employers everywhere.  Plus our vision is to have an hotel in every other state so we need to get on with the networks and partnerships.  
>>  I have a question from Murray Husker: has the hotel or trainees experienced any interface during their traineeship with the NDIS?  If so, can you describe or discuss this experience, please?  
>>  You happy for me to go with it, Tracy?  
>>  Yep.  
>>  It is a simple answer: at the moment in order to participate in the hotel program you need to have an NDIS package.  So they are NDIS participants.  We have established a scholarship fund to allow people that have got a lower level package or no NDIS package to participate as well, but we are not at the stage of having raise enough funds to be able to do that, but we are getting there.  So yes, absolutely, they have a NDIS package and they are supported within the NDIS system.  
>>  OK.  Now I have questions from Bronwyn.  It is interesting how the uniform increases the visibility and identity as a worker having a role, a valued role in the community, it increases recognition and provides a way for people to connect outside of that role as if recognised in the same community.  So that's a comment from her.  She has a question and even an offer of some UTS support: I don't know if you're able to see this: do the restaurants have an external face of inclusion as well in terms of including customers with disability who need modified texture foods?  People with disability report being stigmatised when eating out.  Treated like children or infants when eating out.  I'm interested to know if the hotel model is going to stimulate more inclusion of people with disability as valued customers in eating out culture and being able to eat food that is soft, minced or pureed to their needs or if they need meal time assistance...of texture modifications to suit the individual?  Is that something that you've considered yet or that you might considered?  
>>  Definitely by virtue of who we are and what we offer and the positioning and the story that we communicate, we have already been extremely attracted to visit and stay both in the restaurant and hotel, groups and individuals with disabilities, and so on.  So it is quite a common visitor of the hotel and the restaurant.  In terms of any specific foods that, you know, (inaudible) for that, I have to be honest we haven't encountered the demand or thought about it.  I'm being very honest about it.  But there is no reason why an inclusive joint like us wouldn't do that, right.  And in terms of being treated like children or being treated like in a different way, that doesn't happen because of who we are.  In fact we often, especially in the early days in the first 6 to 12 months people were telling us "But you talk to them normally."  (Laughs).  Yes, we are an inclusive employer who sees people for who they are and their abilities.  So that's not even a question for us in a way in terms of treating and liaising with people in a  an inclusive way.  I don't know if that answers the question.  In terms of the technicality of the food, our own chef, chef Adam, is a trainer himself, a qualified trainer and he's involved with training the trainees at work and he's quite experimental in his approach to food, and so I see that as being an actual development in a way.  
>>  Can I jump in there?  
>>  Of course, yes.  
>>  In Asti the answer to the question is "Yes", Italian served served by chef Antonio, soft textured food, for people who have an eating  I have an eating disability myself, it is very easy to eat those type of foods.  The hotel is set up very much so for inclusive tourism and has developed a reputation across Europe.  When I was there filming there were delegations coming from Norway and other countries because they come with  as families, as organisations to experience ethical tourism where their needs as either families or as a group were being catered for, and their needs are met in all sorts of ways.  So it is very much of the heart of the Asti experience to bring in a diversity of customers and clientele who are coming to the hotel.  
>>  Yes, I didn't know whether you had your hand up before, Tracylee?  
>>  I just wanted to say in some ways just to answer your question, Bronwyn, in some ways we are already doing that in the kitchen.  I know that my daughter and many other people with down syndrome are celiacs and we do oddly enough get quite a few customers and people with down syndrome families, coming through the hotel and staying at the hotel, as well as other disabilities and as a celiac, there's always celiac options on the menu.  And obviously we'd be very, yeah, as Trevor said, the answer is "Yes".  We're inclusive.  (Laughs).  We'd be very open to any provision, to any dietary provision for people with or without disability.  
>>  I have a question here: the Hotel Etico project show cases are humanity, their landmark reminders to us all the balances what is bad out there and what is good is also being achieved.  It is motivational and educational on an individual and societal level.  A business that can be replicated and sustained by others in different parts of the world.  Would you have a management...who might want to use it as their social enterprise model or CSR?  
>>  I suppose the simple answer is "No", in a very formal way, but that is exactly what we are working towards.  So first of all from the point of view we are advocating ourselves.  Our model is born on the Asti hotel in the first place, to hotels in Italy and (inaudible).  In terms of working with other employers, we don't have that systemised but that is the nature of the conversations that we are having with the employer partners that we are partnering with.  I have a view that, you know, like yes, we can impose on open employment and on employers to have targets or expectations, but they don't know what to do themselves, so they need to be supported in it, right, so they need to put money towards it, where they can and they need to be supported in building their own capacity.  We see our role as being that as well.  And we have plenty of applications that point to that.  We have plenty of conversations with potential  we are working in that direction.  To be honest while we change the rive lives of the six individuals and 12 and the 1, the biggest we can make is change society and that's what our effort can be.  That's where the biggest change will happen so that's where our biggest focus will be going towards.  
>>  Thanks.  Now I have a question from Simon.  You mentioned that trainees live together, close to work with a focus of independent living skills.  Is there a cost for participation, board and lodging or is the living component covered by the NDIS SIL funding?  
>>  So Tracy were you answering?  No.  So they are not charged for accommodation.  The NDIS funding is  the NDIS package is charged for the independent living skills training and support, but accommodation is not charged.  And they live onsite, as I said it is actually within the building.  So there is an apartment you know separated physically but not actually in separate building.  Two apartments called the academy of independence and that's where they have their kitchen, lounge rooms and where they live their normal life every day, but they live on a  they live there with a support worker on a ratio of one to three.  
>>  Thank you for answering that question.  Another one from Bronwyn: I think the film and to some extent the settings prioritised speech communication, some constraints, hands behind your back and perhaps underutilisation of visual supports or video modelling.  The use of...nonverbal communication might mean they can be more included, even if they need more support to follow instructions.  I didn't see that multimodal communication or have haven't seen it yet.  The use of Smartphones for video modelling could help with learning, collaboration with speech pathology at UTS is on offer.  She is a professor of speech pathology and one of the academics of our UTS Disability Network and this is indeed the work that Bronwyn specialises in.  Tracylee.  
>>  I was wondering if I could take that one from Bronwyn and first of all say thank you very much for your kind offer with collaboration.  We will be in touch.  (Laughs).  Secondly, I take your point and I'd love to hear Trevor's comment on this about film as a medium prioritising speech communication in its narrative and storytelling.  Obviously, any speech as medium...the experience on the ground with the trainees both in Asti that I saw and the trainees in Australia is broader in its reach of  or its parameters of communication with people.  Though I will mention Nicolo, not the head waiter, but the dish drier in the film, there is a segment in the film how Nicolo being his  his main communication is not verbal, he's not a verbal communicator.  One thing that they use in Asti a lot is mobile phones.  And you saw that in the film but I don't think it was contextualised because they use it when the trainees are travelling across town.  They snap selfies where they are and send it back to Fiorela.  So they use that as a means of communicating or what they are up to.  There's other modalities of communication that can be used and we would love to find out about and will be in touch.  I think in the academy of independence we use visual reminders for people.  The guys use their Smartphones a lot.  The only other thing I'd say is the hands behind the back is an Italian waiting thing.  It is a wait staff thing in Italy, I wouldn't go there.  
>>  Bronwyn is commented it was Nicolo I was thinking of but also the on/off in the kitchen.  The selfie thing is great.  
>>  The selfie thing is big.  They use WhatsApp and just about everybody who is a trainee or associated with the hotel and the families are all plugged into the WhatsApp.  I'm a member of it as well so I see where everyone is doing, what station they're travelling through on the train to get to Asti.  So the mobile phone is very, very important.  And as to the communication, I think Tracy has really covered that aspect with Nicola who can't speak beyond a few words but as you see in the film his capability is increasing day by day by contact with the other trainees and through his employment.  So as chef Antonio says Nicolo's advancement has been phenomenal through the training program.  
>>  If I add one more thing: in our case obviously our current group of trainees are verbal, obviously with different range of abilities, but they are verbal.  But in terms of the use of images and photos and graphics we use them during our training.  And training is not just the actual doing training within the kitchen but we also do a whole peep of other training, whether it is physical or whether it is healthy relationships, or whether it is how to do the shopping, and so forth.  The use of images is quite common in the delivery of our training, but not on the oneonone as they  as you're referring to in the example of Nico in the kitchen with the turning of the knob and things like that.  
>>  I would like to add another aspect which hasn't been touched on so far and that is the families from which the trainees come from.  There is an enormous change that takes place within the families and has to take place within the families for people to really successfully engage with the training program at the hotel and at the restaurant.  As chef Antonio says the first thing he does is give the trainee in the kitchen a 40 centimetre knife.  OK, now in a lot of families this is unheard of because it is dangerous to give someone with an intellectual disability a 40cm knife, but it is the first thing the chef does.  And it is indicative of the transformation that takes place, not just with the trainees through the training program but also within their families.  They have to learn to let go of their son or their daughter to allow them to experience new things and as the chef says encounter danger.  You can't live your life in cotton wool.  You need to go out and experience the potential of danger to live a real life.  And so that change within the family is fundamentally important.  And the other aspect is before they go into training they within their family context need to do some training.  So the trainees before they go into training need pretraining in the kitchen at home.  They need to be able to make their own beds.  They need to be able to dress themselves.  Entirely themselves.  So there are prerequisites that is like a stepping stone to the next stage of training at the hotel which in itself is a stepping stone towards independence ultimately.  
>>  They live away folks for the first time, particularly our trainees.  
>>  Yeah, yeah.  
>>  We're coming to the  mindful coming to the end but a couple of minutes to go.  A final question from Michelle: what is the application process to become a trainee?  Before you answer that, after that I'll then ask you to make a final or closing statement about what public perceptions you're looking to change through Hotel Etico.  But we'll go back to what is the application process?  
>>  There's actually an application online on the website.  And contact us.  All the contacts are on the website.  And it is quite straightforward in applying, and there's an interview process and application process and so on.  And we are recruiting as we speak.  
>>  Fantastic.  So I guess I'll start with you Andrea a closing statement of what public perceptions are you looking to change through Hotel Etico?  
>>  Oh, the world needs to be inclusive and that  and I think the answer to that question is, and it is not just a smart aleck way is  it is come and visit the hotel.  The uniqueness of the social enterprise is just giving...and in the meantime they might get somewhere or they might not, you actually can participate in the change we create by living the hotel, be a patron, a guest.  We need you to work with the trainees that are there.  Anyone can do anything with a bit of extra support if they need it, and if we're needed, and that is just a matter of identifying what their support is.  And I think we are on that amazing journey, and it is extremely  we are extremely proud of that.  
>>  Thank you, Andrea.  And Tracylee and Trevor, any final closing statements before I close our discussion?  
>>  Well, I think the aim of the film, and I hope that the takeout is we can all change the world in small ways or big ways.  It just takes a bit of inspiration, a bit of courage, a bit of effort.  And we can all make these steps to make our world a more inclusive world in which we can all participate happily and together.  That's the takeout for me.  
>>  Thanks, Trevor.  And Tracylee?  
>>  Well, fully support what both Trevor and Andrea have outlined as their vision, and for me I think it is with Hotel Etico the big picture is to show that people with intellectual disability are capable, that they have a place of belonging and that they are worthy of inclusion and that the rest of the world can benefit from that.  
>>  On that note I would just like to thank you all, Andrea, Trevor and Tracylee for being a part of this discussion today.  On behalf of the attendance and the UTS community.  And I would like to encourage everyone who's attended today to watch the movie, you can sign up on the link that's in the chat, but thank you very much for attending today, which is what  for a very important discussion and I look forward to continuing this discussion as Hotel Etico develops.  Thank you again.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Thank you.