Friends of Distinction Reception 2023

00:00:00:08 - 00:00:30:17

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

Young women. Jim Moran, Glenda. And so we had some welcoming language and Gallindurra was the name my dad gave me. But Gallindurra too hard for people to get their head around in this country. So Glendra is what it is. Gallindurra means peaceful waters, and I am pretty peaceful most of the time, unless there is a social justice issue, as people that know me well will say, and then I'm a raging torrent.

00:00:30:17 - 00:01:09:00

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

I'm very proud to be a part of UTS. Yes, I'm I must say, it's a place where I feel at home. It's a place that values, what I believe in diversity, inclusion, and giving everyone a fair go. And a place of great hope. A place of great hope. So, yeah, I'm proud to be the elder in residence at UTS and I better say what I'm supposed to say.

00:01:09:00 - 00:01:34:05

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

I would like to acknowledge and pay respects to the traditional owners of the land on which we meet the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation on which this university is built. As we share our teaching, learning and research practices. Because I've worked out that research is the only way you get money in this country. Am I allowed to say that?

00:01:34:05 - 00:01:59:04

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

Someone tell me if I'm not. Andrew, you tell me if I say something that's not okay, darling. Am I allowed to say that, Andrew? Research Practice. Okay, good. So of course, you know, we'd like to have some more money at universities. We went through a quite a difficult time where other people would know that universities are what makes people's the best that they can be.

00:01:59:04 - 00:02:22:10

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

You know, in my family, when you were the first person to go to university, there was like a close down of the whole family. No one, no one left and no one talked. And it was like, did this really happen? Did someone in our family get to university? And at the last lot of them, you know, the Uni Start Programs, it came.

00:02:22:10 - 00:02:39:14

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

And when I said, who in the audience is the first person ever to go to uni in their family? There was a lot of people that put their hand up and I said to them, That's really brave to put your hand up to say that you were the first person in your family to go to university because it's a big step.

00:02:39:14 - 00:02:58:08

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

It's stepping outside the comfort zone. And it also is stepping into an unknown world. You've got no one to ask, what's it like to be in a uni? So, I haven't done anything. I don't know why I write things and never say it. And you know, I just want to say thank you to Andrew for having me here as the Elder in Residence.

00:02:58:08 - 00:03:27:00

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

I'm really proud of being the Elder in Residence here and I'm really proud of what you do here. And please, keep up the good work and don't go to anywhere else because they will want to snap you up darling. Okay, So look, credit to everyone, let's see the alumni, because it's a big deal. And as that, like any proud mummy or aunty, I need to say, when there's an award night, we all feel really proud.

00:03:27:00 - 00:03:54:09

Aunty Glendra Stubbs

So I'm really proud as the Aunty here. I'm sure Andrew is very proud of all that you have done. And your family and your friends will be really proud of you. I don't know why I ever write these. 

00:03:54:09 - 00:04:44:16

Professor Anita Stuhmcke   
Thank you Aunty Glendra. I have witnessed many of Aunty Glendra’s acknowledgments of country and I always enjoy them. I always find something that resonates and in this case I'm first in family, so I'm the first one in my family who went to university. So, thank you, Aunty Glendra. So, good evening and welcome everyone. My name is Anita Stuhmcke and I'm the Dean of the UTS Faculty of Law. Very proud to be the Dean of the Faculty of Law. And I’ll guide you through the ceremonies for the evening. It's a great privilege to have been asked to emcee this reception, and it's an honour to be here tonight with our esteemed UTS Friends of Distinction and the wider UTS community. Also our special guests that I'll come to in a moment.

00:04:44:16 - 00:05:08:15

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Before we begin, I have a few quick housekeeping items. Our emergency exits are to your left, where you came in. The bathrooms can be found directly opposite the entry to the Great Hall, on the other side of the floor. And please make sure your phones are turned off or are on silent. I missed my calling, I think.

00:05:08:15 - 00:05:47:14

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Chancellor, and Friends of Distinction, Patron Catherine Livingstone AO, Vice-Chancellor and President Professor Andrew Parfitt, Emeritus Professor Anthony Blake AM, the Honourable Michael Kirby AC, Celia Hurley Vice President of Advancement, and the Brennan family who have made their way to be with us here tonight. The beautiful video of Gadigal lands that showed behind the lectern here tonight during Aunty Glendra’s Welcome was produced by Jake Duczynski from Studio Gilay.

00:05:47:14 - 00:06:25:03

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Jake is a fellow Friend of Distinction here tonight and he's collaborating with other Indigenous artists to support the fundraising campaign for the UTS National First Nations College, the first of its kind in the country. So  tonight we gather here to celebrate our Friends of Distinction community. We're celebrating the Honourable Sir Gerard Brennan AC KBE GBS, UTS’s role as a public university, and the contributions of the UTS Faculty of Law to social justice.

00:06:25:03 - 00:07:05:24

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Father Frank Brennan sends his apologies tonight as he is in surgery and can't join us. But he is well, I hear. I'm delighted, however, to announce that Sir Gerard's daughter, Madeline Brennan KC, distinguished barrister at law at Roma Mitchell Chambers, will be honouring her father's legacy with us this evening. So, I'm now delighted to introduce the UTS Chancellor and Friends of Distinction patron, Catherine Livingstone, to give the official welcome.

00:07:05:24 - 00:07:29:05

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

Well, thank you very much, Anita. And can I add my welcome to those of Anita and Aunty Glendra. And I would like to acknowledge all of our distinguished guests here this evening and then particularly, the Brennan family, the Brennan clan. For those of you who've joined our Friends of Distinction Community recently, I would also add a very special welcome.

00:07:29:05 - 00:08:00:11

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

And as you know, our Friends of Distinction is a very large community of about 500 people, including our UTS luminaries, our honorary award recipients, former council members, many of whom are here this evening, so welcome, alumni award winners and so congratulations to those, and many of our Emeritus Professors. Interestingly, about 12% of our Friends of Distinction actually live overseas.

00:08:00:11 - 00:08:36:04

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

So, we're spreading the UTS diaspora. But it's wonderful to be here tonight and be able to celebrate our collective enduring commitment to UTS and to bring together this remarkable community. Thank you for your continued support over several challenging years in recent times. And talking of challenging years, I think for those of you who might remember the last time we met and the first time we really came together was in 2019, where we celebrated the opening of UTS Central.

00:08:36:04 - 00:09:09:10 

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

Little did we know that it would be four years before we could actually get together again in person. We also, as part of UTS Central of course, that is the new home of the Faculty of Law. And can I say it's a lovely home. Andrew, I think it's one of the best homes in the university. So, well negotiated lawyers. But it's also where the Moot Court is, of course.

00:09:09:10 - 00:09:48:10

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

And later this evening, you'll have the opportunity to go and have a look at the moot court. But this evening we officially, several years late, named the moot court in honour of Sir Gerard. And it's truly an honour for UTS to be able to do so. And we honour Sir Gerard's legacy in excellence in the law, but also his extraordinary commitment to social justice, which we know and is a very strong ethos for us here at UTS.

00:09:48:10 - 00:10:36:05

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

So we're really looking forward to hearing from his daughter Madeline shortly on Sir Gerard’s many contributions to our community. But like Sir Gerard and I think all of us, our Friends of Distinction are a group of community minded individuals who share a passion for education, the pursuit of excellence, and a drive for social impact. We all know that there's a great strength and enormous value in supporting education, and particularly and increasingly, higher education as the world becomes almost exponentially more complex and, unfortunately, almost equally exponentially more unequal in that sense.

00:10:36:05 - 00:11:17:01

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

So, the power of education really is inexhaustible in its ability to change lives, change our own lives, as I think everyone here would recognize. But then our ability then to give that advantage to others. So, we know that access to higher education is uneven in Australia. So at UTS and across the University, we're working to try to remove those barriers, ensuring that students from a wide range of backgrounds have an opportunity to attend university and, this for us, is social justice in action.

00:11:17:01 - 00:11:40:18

Chancellor Catherine Livingstone AO

So again, can I thank you all very much for coming. It's lovely to see everyone, and it now gives me great pleasure to invite our Vice-Chancellor, Andrew Parfitt, to say a few words about our wonderful University of Technology. Thank you. 

00:11:40:18 - 00:12:41:08

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
Thank you, Chancellor, and thank you Aunty Glendra, for your acknowledgment of welcome to this Gadigal land. When I acknowledge, and as I do also tonight, I often refer to what people find sometimes a surprise that UTS has among the highest, if not the highest number, of Indigenous Professors in Australia and not just concentrated in our fantastic Jumbunna Institute, but also in mathematics, in engineering, in design, in health, right across the university. And so, in seeking to make a difference with and for our First Nations people, UTS is absolutely committed to making sure that we support through self-determination, through developing talent, the way in which we can make a tangible and practical difference to the future of this country.

00:12:41:08 - 00:13:11:01

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
And that's something we can all be enormously, enormously proud of. Let me also welcome all of the distinguished guests here tonight, Chancellor, of course, and to the Brennan family and Madeline, thank you for allowing us, really, to name the Moot Court upstairs after our second Chancellor, Sir Gerard Brennan. I think we may also have tonight, I'm not sure if he's here, but Emeritus Vice-Chancellor Tony Blake.

00:13:11:01 - 00:13:34:09

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
So many of you who've made such a fantastic contribution to this university, and I hope you can be proud of the things that you see around you today, and what we're achieving. It was a great privilege to be able to name the Moot Court after Sir Gerard Brennan. Unfortunately, I never, I never met Sir Gerard, a great sadness to me.

00:13:34:09 - 00:14:06:11

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
But I do feel that, perhaps, I didn't need to meet him because his fingerprints are all over UTS. Whether it's through the commitment to social justice that we have and knowing the contributions that he made; whether it's through his fierce intellect that stimulates many things in our community to challenge the known world and look at things differently. Sir Gerard is absolutely a part of the UTS past and present, and so, the Moot Court is a fantastic opportunity to recognize that and continue to celebrate it.

00:14:06:11 - 00:15:11:12

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
I'm not a lawyer. I'm an engineer, sorry about that. And so my first exposure to mooting was more likely a group of trees talking to one another in J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. And that the reference to mooting there, I think, is probably to the old Anglo-Saxon definition of ‘an assembly held for debate and argument.’ An assembly held for debate and argument. That’s not a bad definition of a university actually, because really, the contest of ideas, the creation of new ideas, the education of students to make a difference to the world through taking those ideas into practice, in their professions and their lives, is fundamental to universities. And that, for UTS, really sits at the heart of the strategy we put in place back in 2019, UTS 2027, where we had the aspiration to be a leading university of technology with global impact.

00:15:11:12 - 00:15:35:11

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
And there are so many things that we can talk about being a university of technology. We are at the forefront of technologies in so many different areas and recognized globally for that, whether it's artificial intelligence, data science, some of our engineering disciplines, in telecommunications, robotics, the list goes on in the technology areas and then in their application.

00:15:35:11 - 00:16:05:02

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
Importantly, in so many of the professions, whether it's law and the impact that technology is having on the law profession, or design, or health; technology underpins so much of what we do, not only the imagination to create new technologies, but the reality that we have to be able to bring them about to practice, for them to be adopted by communities, increasingly with an eye to how the responsibility we have, for how we use the technologies, really comes into view.

00:16:05:02 - 00:16:30:20

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
Really, the responsible use of technology, as well as its creation, have to be held together. And, as a University of Technology, that's what we do. And so it was a great honour, really, for the university to be named earlier in the year in the global rankings for the QS World University rankings, as among the top hundred universities in the world.

00:16:30:20 - 00:16:58:20

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
The top hundred universities in the world. Think about it, we’re 35 years old as a university and yet a ranking system that looks at everything from our research impact to our commitment to graduate outcomes, to our global reach and footprint, to sustainability and our commitment to the Sustainable Development Goals; putting that package of things, that’s so dear to us, together and being recognized among the top hundred universities of the world.

00:16:58:20 - 00:17:24:01

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
I hope that you can see that you've been a significant part in achieving that. And that allows us not just simply to brag about being in the top hundred, but to leverage that to make an increasingly powerful commitment to partnering, whether it's with industry, with government, with business, with other debating and arguing academics from right across the world, to really transform what we do to make a real difference in people's lives.

00:17:24:01 - 00:17:52:04

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
That's what it's about. That's what UTS 2027 aspires to. And if there were one success that we would pick that this year, it is that we hold together so many of those things, not only as the Chancellor pointed out, a commitment to equity and access, a commitment to excellence, a commitment to engaging with partners, and a commitment to making sure that the work we do both has use and can be responsibly used.

00:17:52:04 - 00:18:37:15

Vice-Chancellor Andrew Parfitt    
So that's the achievements of the university I think that we should celebrate this year. Obviously, we strive to continue to build on that success, but, also, we recognize that so many of you have been a part of that. So let me thank all of you here, Friends of Distinction, for championing the university, for being part of that incredible journey of 35 years, and then extending back to the earlier organizations I acknowledge that their foundations play an important part as well. And may our mooting continue as we continue to create ideas and we continue to change the world.

00:18:37:15 - 00:19:15:14

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Thank you very much, Vice-Chancellor, and thank you, Chancellor. I think both addresses make me realize why I'm so proud to be part of this institution and to be with you here tonight at this event It's a vibrant institution. It ensures access to all and, of course, we all share a commitment to social justice. And that brings me to the contributions of Sir Gerard Brennan. A man who meant so much to so many, and a man that holds a special place in the heart of our university, especially for us in the Faculty of Law.

00:19:15:14 - 00:19:39:22

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
So, it is with great honour that we named our moot court after Sir Gerard and that we also have the Faculty of Law ‘Brennan Leadership and Justice Program’, or the Brennan Program as it's colloquially and friendly, it’s known as. It's a program that continues to thrive, and it allows our law students to exemplify the qualities of professional leadership, service, and excellence.

00:19:39:22 - 00:20:06:07

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
The Brennan Program was championed by Sir Gerard Brennan. It was initiated in 2011. The current numbers in the students right now is twelve hundred. 1200. And this year alone, and remember we're only in August, these 1200 students have performed 7000 volunteer hours. So, the programs aimed at giving our UTS law students both the opportunity, and the privilege, and the responsibility to give back to their communities.

00:20:06:07 - 00:20:34:06

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
And in so doing, we aim to imbue on them the understanding of the privilege and the value of a legal education. So for those of you going on tours to the Brennan Moot Court later tonight, you will be lucky enough to be guided by some of our current Brennan students. So after tonight, if you're interested in collaborating with the Brennan Program or the Faculty of Law in any way, please do contact me. Again, I've missed my calling.

00:20:34:06 - 00:20:58:23

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Sir Gerard has assisted UTS Law students to strengthen the justice consciousness, idealism, and sense of service that they bring to their studies and to their later professions. So it's unsurprising then, that it's with great pleasure that I now introduce Madeline Brennan KC, a barrister with 25 years experience as a member of the Queensland Bar.

00:20:58:23 - 00:21:32:00

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
In 2000, Madeline was a founding member of Roma Mitchell Chambers in Brisbane. A chambers dedicated to providing the highest level of advocacy, advice and dispute resolution. Marked by independence and a commitment to public service generally. It's my pleasure to now welcome Madeline Brennan to speak to you. 

00:21:32:00 - 00:22:22:13

Madeline Brennan KC    
Thank you very much, Anita, for that very warm welcome and introduction. And good evening, all. I also acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora nation, the traditional custodians of the land on which we are meeting and celebrating tonight. I acknowledge Chancellor, Catherine Livingstone, and thank you for your welcome; Vice-Chancellor President Andrew Parfitt, and thank you for the chats that we've had tonight and your acknowledgment of Dad's legacy, albeit that it's come from a slight distance, a distance which is going to increase now for the generations to come.

00:22:22:13 - 00:23:07:06

Madeline Brennan KC    
I'd also like to acknowledge Dad’s dear friend in the audience tonight, Emeritus Professor Paul Redmond. And while I haven't met you tonight, Emeritus Professor Tony Blake, the man I understand who showed Dad the ropes around UTS and led him ever gently into its deep bowels. So, Friends of Distinction and friends all, for those of the Brennan family who could make it here tonight, it is both a great honour, a great honour, and a delight to participate in the official naming of the Moot Court in honour of our beloved father and grandfather.

00:23:07:06 - 00:23:38:09

Madeline Brennan KC    
And in this very generous tribute to his enduring contributions to UTS. As you've heard from Anita, Frank would have dearly liked to have been here today addressing you all. And he sends his greetings, and if I may quote from him his ‘Thanks to all of those at UTS who provided Dad with so many satisfying years, meeting young graduates imbued with a commitment to justice according to law.”

00:23:38:09 - 00:24:22:08

Madeline Brennan KC    
In chatting to my brother Paul about today's event, his first recall was how much Dad loved the friendship and the opportunity afforded to him for his ongoing contribution to the measured discussion here of contemporary issues in public life. Dad brought to his role as Chancellor, a lifetime of achievement in the service of the public good. But for Dad, still, at the peak of his performance when the statutory guillotine fell, the transition to a service at a young and an innovative university was a most welcome transition. 

00:24:22:08 - 00:25:03:24

Madeline Brennan KC    
He said “At the end of a period of service in courts where integrity, independence, competence, and collegiality of one's colleagues gave stimulus and enjoyment every working day. I was privileged to enjoy the same environment in this university.” It has been wonderful to see Michael Kirby here again tonight, and I'm sure Michael can share the sentiment of the enjoyment of everyday, working in the collegiality of the High Court and then the privilege of the same environment in this university.

00:25:03:24 - 00:25:33:03

Madeline Brennan KC    
Dad's ready involvement in university life flowed seamlessly from a life dedicated to the development of independent and critical thought in the company of others. It was in student politics that Dad first met Mum at the University of Queensland and it was a meeting of hearts and mind. Mum, with an assured capacity and intelligence to draw attention to the small voice within and without.

00:25:33:03 - 00:26:11:06

Madeline Brennan KC    
But on Dad's legacy at UTS, it is apposite to cite from your own citation on the conferral of the degree of the Doctor of the University on the 9th of May 2005. For six years, 1998 to 2004, Sir Gerard gave great service to this university. Throughout that period, he was guided by several key convictions about universities. Foremost amongst those, is the importance of universities in the life of the community.

00:26:11:06 - 00:26:51:21

Madeline Brennan KC   
He saw education, and particularly tertiary education, as developing the capacities of individuals thus enabling them to attain full potential. Chief amongst these is the development of the capacity for independent and critical thought with the acquisition of professional knowledge and skills he maintained, comes the duty to use these benefits responsibly in the service of the community. It was clearly his view frequently stated, that education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual.

00:26:51:21 - 00:27:32:18

Madeline Brennan KC    
And so Dad was afforded the opportunity to support the full range of the university's research and education programs. Eager to promote its multicultural and its overseas reach, delighting in graduate ceremonies both in Singapore and Hong Kong. He was never shy of the gentle but well thought out nudge, to examine the issues of the day that could affect our future, our freedoms, indeed, our self-respect, and which ought to be subjected to critical and independent thinking.

00:27:32:18 - 00:28:16:24

Madeline Brennan KC    
He fervently believed that the ability to think for oneself is the greatest gift each of us possesses. It was the faculty to be honed in a tertiary education. It informed his emphasis on academic freedom and the role of the university in teaching an independent research to be employed. As with all ennobling professions in the public interest. Dad led by example. He did not seek publicity, but nor did he flinch to generously give of his time and talents to speak at the invitation of others.

00:28:16:24 - 00:28:55:14

Madeline Brennan KC    
He would set out the propositions that would guide his address. He would identify the issue and rather than suggest an outcome or a partisan view, he would pose the questions that would resonate with all those with the curiosity of the thinker. And he was not alone. The 1999 to 2004 years had some extraordinary highlights. Well captured in the book of photos UTS so generously collated and gifted to Dad on his retirement.

00:28:55:14 - 00:29:53:06

Madeline Brennan KC    
The unique joint ceremony in 2000 at the University of New South Wales of the Conferral of the Honorary Doctorate of Laws on Nelson Mandela; the Joint conferral in 2002 of honorary doctorates on the Honorable Sir William Deane and the Honorable Mr. Malcolm Fraser, Larissa Behrendt bearing the Mace. Frank recalls being present that afternoon, joining in the standing ovation as these two giants called on the public to resist the populist paths of exclusion and find a principled basis for what Dad then described as the compassion for the marginalized in our society and for those in other nations who more or often, or persecution or poverty, have been robbed of human dignity.

00:29:53:06 - 00:30:37:23

Madeline Brennan KC    
21 years on, and the task is only more acute, as I'm sure university researcher and granddaughter Madeline Gleeson can attest, as can all those students in the Brennan Program from year to year. Approaching six years as Chancellor, Dad ensured that he passed on the honour and the opportunity to fresh blood. But he remained close to the university and its people, particularly with his support and his delight in the law and justice awards named in his honour. He was truly inspired by the ingenuity of the applicants, the generosity and community projects, and their capacity to balance their competing demands.

00:30:37:23 - 00:31:34:18

Madeline Brennan KC    
I look forward to hearing from some shortly. It is a program, I think, that best embodies Dad's legacy of honing fine legal skills in a context and for the purpose of the public good. A legacy that Senator Pat Dodson, Patrick Dodson, envoy for reconciliation, expressed as follows ‘This old man's greatest achievement was that he had the courage and listening heart to seek the truth of our history and to use the law to which he was dedicated to confront the truth, which was so long denied.”

00:31:34:18 - 00:32:06:08

Madeline Brennan KC    
It was the same sentiment that was echoed by Miriam Rose Ungunmerr on the first anniversary of Dad's passing, when she explained why she painted the Pearl and the Serpent; The Symbols of Power, now hanging so proudly near the moot court upstairs,  for the Chief Justice. She said, “Well, he was there for everyone and he was there for us. He was involved in the Mabo decision for us all”.

00:32:06:08 -00:33:02:04

Madeline Brennan KC    
Where the exercise of power unifies the nation through its inclusion of all and progress for the common good, it is surely an enduring legacy to celebrate. The Brennan family, including those who are here and not here tonight, join with Dad in giving expression, as Dad did through the gift of his robes and the Miriam Rose painting for the Chief to UTS, his expression of his profound gratitude to the friendship of all at UTS. I can only say thank you.

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Thank you, Madeleine. Thank you for talking on behalf of the family. Thank you for traveling down from Queensland and to all the other family members who've come from Victoria. Thank you, because your father's legacy is a pillar of UTS. His championing of social justice will forever be an inspiration for our UTS community, and of course, what he's done for the wider community in terms of the judgment in the Mabo decision is something that we will all carry with us. 

00:33:33:04 - 00:34:09:06

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
So thank you. And, it's a wonderful segway into our panel segment of this evening because I'm about to introduce to you three of our eminent UTS law alumni who will speak on the panel this evening. First, and in no particular order, Amani Haydar. Amani is an author, former executive board member of the Bankstown Women's Health Center and the 2021 recipient of the UTS Alumni Award for Excellence in Law.

00:34:09:06 - 00:34:45:12

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Amani is a successful defender of women's rights, especially surrounding gender-based violence and trauma, in which she recounted her own personal experience in her memoir entitled ‘The Mother Wound.’ Nicholas Stuart, now vice president at Australian Lawyers for Human Rights, partner at Dowson Turco Lawyers, and the 2013 recipient of the UTS Alumni Award for Excellence in Community. In 2022, Nicholas was awarded the Law Society of New South Wales President's Medal.

00:34:45:12 - 00:35:13:10

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Nicholas is a prominent and effective advocate for social justice, particularly in support of the LGBTQA+ community. He has been instrumental in uncovering and shedding light on gay hate crimes. And thirdly, but not lastly, Sarah Dale, Centre Director and principal solicitor at RACS, the Refugee Advice and Casework Service, and the 2019 recipient of the UTS Alumni Award for Excellence in Law.

00:35:13:10 - 00:35:50:24

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Throughout her graduate studies and her career, Sarah has fought tirelessly and successfully for the rights and protections of immigrants and refugees, especially unaccompanied children seeking asylum in Australia. Thank you to each of us. We're about to embark on our panel discussion. As she moves seamlessly from emcee to panel moderator. So, our panel focus is on the role of higher education in enhancing social justice across diverse communities.

00:35:50:24 - 00:36:13:13

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
And I couldn't think of three more wonderful panel members who are engaged in their communities to make an impact and a difference to have this discussion with. So firstly, may I ask what community means to each of you and how you've used your legal education in your community to enhance social justice? Amani, if we begin with you and we'll work around.

00:36:13:13 - 00:36:45:23

Amani Haydar    
Thank you, and thank you for the acknowledgment of country. I live and work and raise my kids on Dharug land. So that's where I've travelled in from today and always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Community for me is inextricable from my choices in terms of my career and in terms of the work that I do today. My family, my parents migrated to Australia from Lebanon in the seventies and eighties.

00:36:45:23 - 00:37:23:22

Amani Haydar    
I grew up in an environment where there was a lot of pressure on us as the children of migrants to make the sacrifice of our parents worthwhile. And I know this is a common experience among other children of migrants where they feel a sense of responsibility and duty to, I guess, honor their parents displacement and their hard work and the things that they gave up by making something of our lives, by pursuing a particular idea of education and success.

00:37:23:22 - 00:37:57:22

Amani Haydar    
And as the eldest daughter in a migrant family, I really felt that all the time. And the first lawyer in my family, my husband is the first lawyer in his family and I think sometimes that means a lot more than just a profession for us. So we find ourselves in positions where we're making the law accessible to members of our community, we’re explaining things, be it to our parents or their neighbours, or someone who's just heard that so-and-so’s child is a lawyer, and we might get in touch and get some help from them.

00:37:57:22 - 00:38:26:12

Amani Haydar    
We have, I mean, I know that we've had, at least on a couple of occasions, people knock on the door unexpectedly to ask a question about the law. And we play a role in often translating legal ideas or concepts to people, making sure that they understand what's going on, because the law is, unfortunately, not always accessible to the most vulnerable and the most marginalized people.

00:38:26:12 - 00:38:55:24

Amani Haydar    
So for me, giving back to community is important. It's important to me to combine my skills with my understanding of my community to do something that creates change. And that's what brought me to advocacy work, advocating for women in the domestic violence space, contributing my legal background to the local Women's Health Centre as a volunteer on the board.

00:38:55:24 - 00:39:13:00

Amani Haydar    
Centres like that don't receive a whole lot of funding. They definitely can’t, don’t, afford to have an in-house lawyer or anything like that. So it's one way in which I'm able to be a part of my community, be involved and contribute those skills in a way that I hope makes an impact. 

00:39:13:00 – 00:39:24:17  

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

Thanks, Amani. That’s wonderful. Anything I say after anyone talks, is going to sound quite trite, so I might not say very much at all. So Nick.

00:39:24:17 - 00:40:12:00

Nicholas Stewart

Look, I think community for me is love, care, accountability, responsibility. In my life, I didn't really know what community was until I identified as a member of the LGBT community. And when my firm has Christmas parties and for clients and members of the heterosexual community come to our parties, they often say “What is it about your community that knows how to have fun?” But there's a long story to that answer, and it comes from being resilient and being alienated by society and having to form connections which are self-regulating so that we can take care of ourselves.

00:40:12:00 - 00:40:56:02

Nicholas Stewart   
And my combination of my experience as a member of the LGBT community, but also having legal qualifications, means that there's intersectionality between my profession as a lawyer and my identity as a gay man and my ability to navigate the laws that regulate and govern our country to achieve justice. Because I've identified as someone who's benefited from people who've come before me, who fought for legal change, who've been brave and authentic in their fearlessness when it comes to the rights of the LGBT community.

00:40:56:02 - 00:41:31:18

Nicholas Stewart   
Unfortunately, there are other parts of our society who dislike, who don't like members of the LGBT community and hold biases. And for the last 40 years, at least across Australia, gay men, trans people, and bisexual people, and women from the LGBT community were targeted for bashings and murders and having the ability to stand up for the families and victims of LGBT hate crimes.

00:41:31:18 - 00:41:55:12

Nicholas Stewart   
I felt like I had no option but to seek justice and truth for those families. And for me, my sense of community has meant that I owe it to them to expose those responsible for the hatred and bigotry and violent crimes committed against my community in the past. 

00:41:55:12 - 00:42:21:15

Sarah Dale   
I too want to acknowledge the Gadigal people and the lands on which I live and work. And also in the spirit of tonight, pledged my unwavering support to the voice at the end of this year. And I really hope that that can be a step towards justice for our First Nations people. I guess my perspective is completely different. I have come from a world of privilege. Yes, I'm the first lawyer in my family, the first one to go to university.

00:42:21:15 - 00:42:57:23

Sarah Dale    
I'm not marginalized. I'm not from a migrant background. But I had the lottery of birth, in being born in Sydney, Australia, and it has made no sense to me how I was so lucky and why we then can’t share that luck, that wealth, that safety and freedom with people that weren't blessed with that lottery of birth. And so, for me it has come from a place of not intending to set out to work in the human rights space or defending a community which I have grown up in.

00:42:57:23 - 00:43:24:09

Sarah Dale    
It has come from a place of really, you know, university life and being aware of other people in the community in which I am emerged and really questioning why it is such a stark difference between the haves and the have nots, Why should I be afforded safety, protection, a right to education when a girl from Afghanistan is not afforded the same thing simply by virtue of the fact of where she was born?

00:43:24:09 - 00:43:49:03 

Sarah Dale    
And that's where, ultimately, I've ended up at the Refugee Advice and Casework Service and have stoically worked there now for more than ten years; because that is my perception, is that community is what you make it. You are born into a community, you live in a community, but you also have the ability to build a community and you have the ability to afford a community.

00:43:49:03 - 00:44:06:15

Sarah Dale    
And so to your original question, Anita, that's what community is to me. And I think those of us in the privileged position that I was in, we have an absolute moral right to afford that community to those that seek it also. 

00:44:06:15 - 00:44:28:04

Professor Anita Stuhmcke   
So I might just follow up just with a quick question, just going this way. I guess, because, just in relation to that; so in terms of the community that you've worked for, or work with, how have you drawn on that community? I mean, how is it that you have been embedded in that community and been able to make an impact? 

00:44:28:04 - 00:45:14:16

Sarah Dale    
That's a really good question and one that's difficult to ask. You know, a white woman from the lower North shore of Sydney who's now more comfortable sitting on the steps of people's homes in Auburn that don't speak English. You know, how do you go from that life to another? And I think that it's about relating to people. You know, I am constantly inspired every single day, by particularly young women and young girls that have fled and made their way to Australia to fight for something that was just bestowed upon me. And I think that it's about recognizing, and this sounds really trite. I'm sure we're all going to sound pretty trite tonight, so you shouldn't blame yourself, Anita, but it's about recognizing that humanity.

00:45:14:16 - 00:45:35:13

Sarah Dale    
I think that there is far more that we have in common than we have that is a difference. And my ability to relate to someone or work with someone who does not speak the language that I speak, that comes from a land that I've never visited. Ultimately, we relate because we all want the same thing. We want our health, we want our family, we want our safety.

00:45:35:13 - 00:45:51:00

Sarah Dale    
We want to the ability to love who we love and we want to do so in security. And so I think when you fundamentally distil it down to values, it's very easy to relate to someone for whom you have no other things that really align.

00:45:51:00 - 00:46:07:01

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

And Nick, just coming to follow something up, I know you're a very proud UTS Law alumni, and I'm just interested with respect to the impact of your UTS legal education and what that's meant in relation to social justice for you?

00:46:07:01 - 00:46:23:00

Nicholas Stewart

Sure. I look, I just think, you know, social justice is in the blood of the university. In constitutional law lectures, my lecturer, Professor Keyzer, he's now a dean of another university.

00:46:23:00 - 00:46:26:20

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

Don’t mention that (laughter).

00:46:26:20 - 00:47:08:02

Nicholas Stewart

He always posed the question, why do some people get to enter the border and others not? Why do we turn away people of a certain colour and accept others? And so we will constantly, as students, forced to think about where we come from. And I too come from a middle class family on the lower North Shore. But I was forced to really think about those things. Jill McKeough, who was the dean of law at the time, really went about making sure that UTS graduates had the skills and capabilities to meet the demands of the industry.

00:47:08:02 - 00:47:45:20

Nicholas Stewart   
And that wasn't just in the corporate world, even though I ended up in the corporate world. It was also in civil society and social community services. So I just think it was because of the hard work of people like Gill McKeough, and yourself, and Patrick Keyzer, to instil in us the sensibilities and fairness when it comes to our society and our privilege as being graduates of a great law school with skills to navigate what is a really complex set of rules that govern how we work and live.

00:47:45:20 - 00:48:07:11

Professor Anita Stuhmcke   
That's true. And talking of rules, Amani, you mentioned your lived experience and how that had influenced, I think, or impacted upon your choices. I'm just wondering about how that lived experience has actually been your motivator, or to what degree it's been your motivator for change and for impact? 

00:48:07:11 - 00:48:40:13

Amani Haydar

Yeah, so there are two key experiences that shape who I am and the choices I've made with my career. I lost my grandmother in 2006 in an Israeli airstrike in the south of Lebanon. Both of my parents grew up in war and occupation, and my grandmother's death was investigated by Human Rights Watch as a potential war crime alongside the deaths of a few other civilians in the same incident. I was in Year 12, about to sit my HSC at the time and thinking about my career.

00:48:40:13 - 00:49:15:16

Amani Haydar   
And I think, having been really strongly affected by those events, and having had a strong connection with my grandmother, I think that propelled me to think about what justice can look like and what does it look like for people who don't always have access to mechanisms for accountability and who have had to tolerate that kind of state violence for a very long time, without any kind of relief.

00:49:15:16 - 00:49:43:03

Amani Haydar    
I lost my mum to domestic violence in 2015. She was murdered by my dad, and my dad was then charged with murder and tried. And during the trial I was called as a witness. I gave evidence. I also read out a victim impact statement at sentencing. At the time that my mum was murdered, I was five months pregnant, and I was working as a commercial litigator over at Hicksons.

00:49:43:03 - 00:50:16:06

Amani Haydar    
And going through that experience prompted me to look at the law from a completely different angle. And that's the angle of a victim of crime. The angle of being a visibly Muslim woman in a society where Muslim women face both challenges from within our community, in the way that patriarchy manifests and affects us, as well as challenges when we look outwards to the wider community.

00:50:16:06 - 00:50:50:22

Amani Haydar    
I grew up through 911 and having witnessed vilification and over surveillance of my community as well over the years. So, I thought a lot about how I would tell my mum's story, when the time came to tell it. And I knew I wanted to tell her story because I didn't think that she should be forgotten. I don't think that any of the women who are murdered in our country should be forgotten and unfortunately not all of them receive the kind of coverage that my mum's death received.

00:50:50:22 - 00:51:35:03

Amani Haydar    
Indigenous women go missing and are murdered frequently at an appalling rate, and often their deaths go unreported and sometimes even un-investigated. So for me, storytelling has become a really important mechanism through which I'm able to reconnect with my grandmother and my mum and make sure that I realign myself with the values that they held dear and to share my experience in a way that can help patch up some of the gaps that I experienced and was affected by in the aftermath of my mum's death.

00:51:35:03 - 00:52:14:12

Amani Haydar    
I've worked in consultation with organizations like DV New South Wales, to speak to ministers, to talk about my lived experience and the things that I observed during that time in a way that can help develop better policy in the future and hopefully better policy, in particular, for women from non-English speaking backgrounds and women from low socioeconomic backgrounds. So I think everything I do is really driven by those two very powerful women who influenced my life and their memory.

00:52:14:12 - 00:52:25:00

Amani Haydar    
And I hope that I do justice, to them, and to their memory through that work. 

00:52:25:00 - 00:52:53:23

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

And Amani, I think, perhaps a natural question that would flow for all of us working in universities or who have been associated and are associated with universities. How can we, in terms of the future, how can we combine lived experience in a way with education? Do you see suggestions for us to enable us to bring about the sort of sustainable change that's needed?

00:52:53:23 - 00:53:16:19

Amani Haydar    
Absolutely. In the same way that the DV sector has begun to really draw on lived experience, to solve problems, to develop better policy, to identify funding gaps. I think lawyers as a collective can do the same thing by better understanding the people that they likely to interact with their career.

00:53:16:19 - 00:53:39:14

Amani Haydar    
I think university is an opportunity to shape lawyers who are trauma informed, for example, because there is so much trauma in our community and we interact with traumatized people all the time, sometimes without knowing it and often without the literacy that we need in order to best meet their needs and minimize the harm that they're experiencing. I think all lawyers should be anti-racist, and I know that sounds like an obvious thing to say, but it isn't always what you experience when you're out there in the world and in practice.

00:53:39:14 - 00:54:27:06

Amani Haydar    
And I think universities can develop their own policies to be safer for people to make disclosures. So I've talked to some university staff at other universities about how to respond effectively and empathetically if a student makes a disclosure about domestic violence or sexual violence, and how to make sure that the university environment remains supportive of that person throughout their journey, because the ramifications of violence, including PTSD, can really have a negative effect on their progression through university.

00:54:27:06 - 00:54:46:00

Amani Haydar    
So I think that there's so much that can be done. And I think as a profession, there's so much that we can learn and I think we need to be willing to be flexible and look to other disciplines and incorporate that knowledge from survivors of violence into our own understanding and into our own practice. 

00:54:46:00 - 00:55:08:18

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

And the future focused theme. Nick, if I can come to you in terms of, again, a theme of tonight has been legal education and social justice, what would you perhaps think might be some of the things, again, that higher education can do to advance social justice going forward? What future opportunities, perhaps challenges?

00:55:08:18 - 00:55:11:00

Nicholas Stewart

Subject to funding. 

00:55:11:00 - 00:55:14:16

Professor Anita Stuhmcke 

Always, subject to funding. 

00:55:14:16 - 00:55:58:23

Nicholas Stewart   
Look, I think UTS’s Brennan Program is probably the prime example of where every university should head. And I say that because it is the Brennan program, for those who don't know, it is an elective program at the university and students apply to join the program and will be credited with recognition if they complete volunteer hours in industry but in a social justice framework. And at my firm, I led the campaign for two parliamentary enquiries into LGBT hate crimes and the current Special Commission of Inquiry into LGBT hate crimes.

00:55:58:23 - 00:56:25:10

Nicholas Stewart    
Justice Sackar from the Supreme Court presided over that inquiry, and he will hand down his report at the end of this month. But my firm set up a clinic, a Pro Bono clinic, where victims of hate crimes could use our legal team to write witness statements and deliver effectively evidence to a commission of inquiry or parliamentary inquiries. And that's not an easy thing to do, and it's certainly not an easy thing to do for a law student.

00:56:25:10 - 00:56:56:17

Nicholas Stewart    
But it was an opportunity for UTS Brennan students to come and work with me closely in relation to very, very complex issues, often crossing through intersectionality. So, Aboriginality, gender, trans identity, but also taking evidence from people who have experienced trauma. And I can think of one particular student who met with a victim of an atrocious hate crime which involved sexual violence.

00:56:56:17 - 00:57:28:08

Nicholas Stewart    
And I prepped that student, made sure that she felt comfortable taking instructions from someone who had very complex issues and was experiencing PTSD. But whose evidence was so critical to this scope of the inquiry. And this particular student said to me that she was absolutely comfortable and if she had any concerns, she would let me know. And I even offered to meet with her and the client to take the statement.

00:57:28:08 - 00:58:01:16

Nicholas Stewart    
And she said, ‘No, you just introduce me and let me do it.’ And it was that giving her the power to do that alone and having interviewed her, I had faith that she could do the job properly. And I was just amazed at the quality of the work. the statement that came back, really articulated all of the issues, the forensic detail, but also, the compassion and empathy, and translating what is effectively a lay person statement into evidence that will be considered by a commission of inquiry, I think is so powerful.

00:58:01:16 - 00:58:20:16

Nicholas Stewart    
And for her to have that experience, I think, you know, really set her apart from other students at university. And I see her on LinkedIn doing amazing things in the corporate world and I hope that one day she'll use that experience to work in civil society or in human rights.

00:58:20:16 - 00:58:41:16

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Thanks Nick, and that leads, actually, Sarah, my future focused question for you is a question around access to universities. So perhaps that idea of in the future, how do we encourage and provide opportunities for people that are sort of mentioned or people that you of course work with? How can universities improve that part of what we do? 

00:58:41:16 - 00:59:21:14

Sarah Dale

So I think, you know, first and foremost, I am exceptionally proud to be a UTS alumni and I have many, many people that RACS has supported that I know have come to UTS on scholarships or to the INSEARCH program and I feel, you know, as proud as punch that they're going to my university and I can say, ‘oh you know that's where I went.’  And they're like ‘Awwh’, in the way, you know, we all get to bond over that and it's a real equalizer, I think, in those conversations. I think what I would love to see is for universities to embrace their power. There are so many people that are deliberately prevented from access to universities due to their status.

00:59:21:14 - 00:59:49:15

Sarah Dale   
They are obvious. They are usually discriminatory policies, such as people that have been in Papua New Guinea or Nauru affected by offshore processing. Even whilst they're waiting in Australia and many of them have been here for years, they are deliberately prevented from access to study, not just through eligibility for HECS or related things like that. Even if your university offered them a scholarship, their visa deliberately prevents them from accessing study.

00:59:49:15 - 01:00:32:02

Sarah Dale

And so I think that it's really great. I think universities have made real strides in terms of recognizing that there are barriers, that we provide programs and support, mentorship, that there are scholarships. But I think it's also about embracing the power that we as a university community have to say ‘Actually, we also are standing against these policies that are also preventing us from having people in our community that should be part of our community.’ And so, I guess that would be my message for everyone here tonight, which is embrace that power and use that power to challenge the structures not only within your university, but externally that are preventing people from access to these degrees.

01:00:32:02 - 01:00:49:19

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
And we only have, I think, a few minutes left. 2 minutes? That's a great point. I mean, we're with an audience that are people who give, people to give to their community, people are here tonight because they believe in UTS as a community.

01:00:49:19 - 01:01:00:00

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
So perhaps if we could, just with our remaining minute, what would be one thing that you might suggest to us here tonight that would assist us, I guess, with our mission of social justice and how it is that we can contribute to our communities? Sarah, I think you've said yours. 

01:01:00 – 01:01:08:16

Sarah Dale

I’ll let Amani go first.

01:01:08:16 - 01:01:20:00

Amani Haydar

I think I'm just going to share a really simple thing that I learnt in the women's health space, and that's to instead of asking ‘What's wrong with you?’ Ask ‘What happened to you?.’

01:01:20:00 - 01:01:23:00

Nicholas Stewart

Keep doing what you're doing. 

01:01:23:00 - 01:01:43:21

Sarah Dale

I say keep doing what you're doing, but, embrace your power. And I said it before, I'm going to say it again. I think that it's a really exciting time in Australia where there is potential for social change and we need to encourage our parliamentarians, we need to encourage our government to continue to push for that change, because that change only comes from us.

01:01:43:21 - 01:01:55:00

Sarah Dale

It's not going to come from Canberra. And so, embrace that power and let's really tackle the structures as opposed to just our own systems and policies. 

01:01:55:00 – 01:02:11:14

Professor Anita Stuhmcke

So would you join me in a round of applause and it's at times like this that I have goosebumps. We just have three wonderful humans who are doing wonderful things.

01:02:11:14 - 01:02:36:18

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
So thank you very much. Stay, stay, stay while we close, we will close proceedings together. In closing the proceedings, I'd like to thank the people who have worked so hard behind the scenes to make tonight happen. Paul Redmond, Emeritus Professor, has had many mentions tonight. He has worked very hard, along with Crystal Meikle and Monica Reade and Heather Nolan; my colleagues from the law faculty.  

01:02:36:18 - 01:03:03:05

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Tracey Beck and Bill Baggott from Advancement. Bill Patterson, I don't know if you’re here, from UTS governance. He brought this idea for tonight together. And a sincere thanks to the many other, now unnamed UTS colleagues who have assisted. So may I again now thank our panel participants and our speakers tonight Aunty Glendra, Chancellor Catherine Livingstone, Vice-Chancellor and President Andrew Parfitt and Ms Madeline Brennan KC.

01:03:03:05 - 01:03:24:03

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Thank you for a thoroughly enjoyable evening and I think we all now should give ourselves and everyone else a round of applause. My last emcee sentence for tonight is that tours for the Moot Court will be departing from the rear of the hall. Please continue to enjoy the refreshments and I hope you continue to have a wonderful evening.

01:03:24:03 - 01:03:27:19

Professor Anita Stuhmcke    
Thank you all.