Disability Entrepreneurship

BEN GAUNTLETT:
Thank you Solomon for that kind introduction. Swimming is probably, putting it loosely, glorified drowning, maybe a slightly more accurate description of the swimming technique that I had when swimming to Rottnest, but ladies and gentlemen, our distinguished guests, good disability policy benefits all Australians. It is innovative, evidence-driven and able to adapt to changing circumstances. I too wish to pay my respects to the Gadigal people of the Eora nation and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. Today is an important day, not least because I have the pleasure of launching a report in relation to an area that I'm passionate about, being work and employment, but also because it reflects a changing focus in Australia from looking at our survival mentality for people with disability to a participation mentality for people with disability. Professor Simon Darcy, Professor Jock Collins and Dr Megan Stronach have produced a report entitled Australia's Disability Entrepreneurial Ecosystem experiences of people with disability, micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship. That is indeed a bit of a mouthful but here after all refer to it as the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report and the report was sponsored by the University of Technology Sydney, Settlement Services International, National Disability Services and breakthrough your choice.

In a sense, disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report perhaps reflects the challenges that people with disability in Australia face more generally. The report does this by referring to the social ecological model which looks at intrapersonal, interpersonal organisational, community and policy level considerations affecting people with disability. It finds that people with disability are 43% more likely to be self-employed than non-disabled Australians. But because of things such as block mentality which is cause... sorry, blocked mobility caused by a mismatch between the skills and the labour force being a factor and also factors like the increased autonomy offered by self-employment people are moving into self-employment and entrepreneurship. At all times the reporting knowledge is a critical issue. That is that the surrounding social ecology of the individual entrepreneur with disability is important. Today I would like to make three points.

First, meaningful participation of people with disability is not just about human rights. It is good business. But there is always a role for recognising impediments to equality of opportunity. Second, barriers to the inclusion of people with disability are physical, informational, attitudinal and the product of self-perception. One of the attractions of the research undertaken is that whilst or one of the attractions of research rather is that whilst research concerns people the people involved are often treated as behaving rationally. Sadly, we know in real life that not all people are rational or reasonable. Third, I'd like to consider the lasting effects of the corona virus on Australia. In doing so we need to understand the dangers of isolation and the potential for violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation people with disability to occur. Whilst much angst has arisen as a result of the corona virus the importance of technology, entrepreneurship and innovation has also become apparent particularly for people with disability.

The disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report correctly notes that the diversity of disability that exists in Australia. Almost 18% of Australians have a disability. Many of those individuals with a disability have a disability that is unseen. Approximately 80% of disability is acquired in the totality of a person's life. In a sense therefore some individuals may think disability policy does not apply to them. It is likely in time they will realise it does. When considering overseas references to disability, it is also important to note that the distinction between older citizens and people with disability which is a by-product of our social security system does not exist overseas. Although many citizens. who are older I'm not in a sense referred to as having a disability in Australia. That is not the case. When we look at disability policy in Australia we future proof the country.

Australia ratified the convention on the Rights of persons with disabilities in 2008. Some 11 years later it was reviewed by the committee on the rights of persons with disabilities in Geneva. The committee found that the response of Australia to its convention obligations was inconsistent. It is important to acknowledge that in Australia there are many good policy ideas and frameworks for people with disability. However, there are concerns relating to implementation. This requires evidence to be gathered, to be assessed, to be discussed and to be analysed. This has... clearly occurred in the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report that has been compiled. There is quite obviously a human right to employment. But employment can often be thought to be an individual working for a large organization.

In the new economy where innovation's favoured, where technology can change how and where people work from, where an area with little res... an area where little research has been done is for people with disability is in the area of micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship. In this respect the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report is a welcome and much needed piece of scholarship in Australia and throughout the world. I enjoyed very much reading the report because it emphasized both the motivations of people with disability undertaking self-employment. Some of which were to work in fields with people with disability and some of which were not but also sought to address the structural and motivational issues as to why people with disability may not avail themselves of certain career opportunities in the future. The benefits of people with disability in self-employment is obvious. They can work in a flexible way and deliver better outcomes for consumers. The background of the person with a disability can be an advantage. When someone asked me what I should employ someone to disability often raise the issue that if a person takes three hours to get to work in the morning there is every likelihood they very much want to be present. Similarly, in the area of self-employment motivation is a critical factor and can be indicia of why people with disability do well.

A diversity of life experiences can create a better understanding of customers too. But at the same time as noting the strengths of people with disability in employment and self-employment disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report highlights the bureaucratic issues that can make it challenging for a person with a disability to be an economic participant in Australia and the need for confidence and family support to commence certain roles. Networking and social structures are important. We have known these and other diversity characteristics and attempted to reduce the negative effects of their existence or need but in disability this gap is often left undiagnosed or fails to be acknowledged. Therefore whilst the business case is obvious for people with disability and self-employed or entrepreneurship it is not divorced from a need for an understanding of the need for equality or opportunity.

The National Disability Strategy is being reviewed this year. It is a decade long policy that was interesting to by Commonwealth State Territory when local government to give effect to Australia's obligations under the convention. Perhaps most importantly the National Disability Strategy acknowledges the barriers to inclusion for a person with a disability and not just about ramps for wheelchair users or funding for support programs but can be attitudinal and informational. It is easier when a person gets older to forget the uncertainty and awkwardness of trying to embark on a career. Fortunately, the report compiled relating to disability entrepreneurship understands the challenges that can be faced from motivational point of view.

 Earlier this year, before social distancing measures were implemented the Australian Human Rights Commission undertook consultation with young people with disability regarding employment. The stories were heartbreaking. My suspicion is that the reason for the negative employment outcomes was more of a result of a lack of awareness by employers than intentional exclusion. But I recall when a participant commented, "After all that how do you expect me to get up out of bed and get a job?" I had a lot of sympathy for their position. Mentoring incubators, access to information and for want of a better expression coaches can all reduce the confidence gap for people with disability. But at the same time, we need employers, customers, suppliers, financiers and fellow business owners to have progressive views towards inclusion. When information is provided concerning self-employment and entrepreneurship. It is important that the information is supplied in an accessible format. Accessible information includes information that is understandable.

The self-isolation and physical distancing requirement caused by the corona virus can exacerbate the disadvantages faced by people with disability in Australia. The wider societal dislocation caused by these health measures has meant that accessing such things as home care can be challenging. But to overcome the challenges caused by the corona virus there has also been a reliance on technology. Working from home, use of online platforms to acquire support, smartphone apps that can trace contexts and the digitization of information and other processes has created the potential for inclusion of people with disability. People who may have struggled in employment in a large organization with rigid rules may now be attracted to the flexibility offered by micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship which may now become normalised. Time will tell us to the extent to which barriers faced by people with disability have been increased due to the corona virus. As with any problem an initial step in dealing with it is to acknowledge and try to scope the relevant issue. But the status quo and returning to the status quo should not be thought of as the only solution. Much like a self-employed person or entrepreneur. we need to innovate. In conclusion. I don't know all the authors of the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report. Well, I only know Simon. When I have issues relating to disability policy in Australia and want someone to use someone for a sounding board. I often seek him out. He is wise and considered. It is therefore perhaps unsurprising that the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report of which is a system in authoring is wise and considered. It shows a depth of understanding of people with disability in society. It is an excellent piece of scholarship which he and his fellow authors an organisation sponsoring the research should be commended. I hope it is the first of many outstanding research reports that are produced in this field. Thank you.

 

JOCK COLLINS:
This was of course planned to be done late last year. We got caught up with the end of year rush so we said let's do it early 2020. And of course, we were just about to do that when we were caught with the COVID crisis. So, hence we have our Zoom virtual launch today. So the research team of course, is Simon and myself and we hired Megan Stronach as our postdoc to work on the project, and Barb Almond also has been sort of supporting us through the whole process. So this is the research team. Today is the research... the launch of the research report. I'd like to thank everyone for giving us your valuable time. My first task is to introduce you to Dean Jarrett. Dean Jarrett is the first UTS Aboriginal man to gain a research PhD. He works. He's our colleague. Simons and I have Dean as a colleague in the Management Discipline Group at the UTS Business School and Dean did a terrific PhD on indigenous supply chains in the United States and Australia. So and he's now on our teaching staff. So first of all I'd like Dean to do the welcome and then I will hand it on to Simon and Simon will then chair us through the rest of the proceedings. Dean.

 

DEAN JARETT:
Thanks, Jock. Could it be... just a little bit about myself first, I'm a Gumbaynggirr man. Gurreng Gurreng/ Boonthamurra or Gumbaynggirr is up at the north coast of New South Wales. Simon and I are very familiar with that area. You know spent a lot of our childhood up that way. So my father and his family all come from goodwill. You know we were all born for the Gumbaynggirr people. My mother's side Gurreng Gurreng is her...is our mother and Boonthamurra is her father and my grandma and grandpa and they're in... they're countries up in Queensland.

I think there's also just talking with Simon again, listen to Jock about the project. There's a lot of similarities I believe in and cross-overism between my research and what...what this project about and in terms of the challenges and... and whatnot that face Indigenous businesses. You know but personally I want to you know at foremost acknowledge all the lands that we're on right now. We're in the middle of Sydney and it's Sydney area. You know we're all over the place but where we're at, our universities it's, you know, based in Gadigal country.

So I want to acknowledge the Gadigal... the people of the Gadigal. And also I wanna acknowledge all the lands in countries where you are across you know across Australia. Aboriginal people have responsibilities to our lands to ensure that we have our spiritual connections and cultural connections and even our economic survival. Now from those names kept in place and kept at the forefront of anything that the Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people do. We have the land for us is a source... is really a source of our identity. So in saying that I acknowledge all the lands and countries where...where we are today. Look, have a great launch, I can't stay, but have a great launch today and I'm sure it'll be wonderful. Just remember that Australia always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Thank you.

 

SIMON DARCY:
Thanks very much Dean to that wonderful welcome and acknowledgement of country. I'd like to Barbara just to flip to the next slide. I've asked Murray Hurps if he could do a short welcome from UTS as an institution as Murray is UTS's first director of entrepreneurship charged with supporting student start-ups coming out of UTS and nurturing the Ultimo precinct's as a vibrant start-up environment. The remainder Murray's bio speaks volumes of his influence on the Australian start-up community. Just as importantly Murray was also partly involved with the research as the founder of the Start-up Muster, a yearly survey of the... of the start-up... Tech start-up environment in Australia and we were able to negotiate for a disability module to be included in 2017 and 2018. And that became part of our sample from which this study is based. So I warmly welcome you, Murray.

 

MURRAY HURPS:
I'm pleased to be here. Thank you, Simon. And as seen in different coloured hoodies before I need to start wearing some different clothes. I am the director of entrepreneurship for UTS and I'm a massive fan of entrepreneurship. Particularly as an enabler of people. I started a company when I was 16 that ran for 14 years and almost all of that I spent working from home in a little home office with people that were distributed around the world and largely with chat. There wasn't much video kind of interaction with people back then. It was IRC chat and that company grew to 100 million active users of a desktop software product. And you just look at that and think why don't more people allow themselves to do that kind of work to start the companies that can be global companies from wherever they are.

And I'm feeling better about the prospects of that now because at UTS obviously we've had to move everything online in a hurry. And all the work we do to try and encourage our students to be entrepreneurs has moved online and we're still getting about a dozen new start-ups launching each week from students in their bedrooms, their living rooms wherever they are. And I think that's kind of rekindling that hope in my mind that as an enabler of people wherever they are with whatever challenges they have that entrepreneurship is a way of breaking down those and enabling them to have impact. So I'd say it's a wonderful thing but there's a lot of work to be done to make it better and make it more accessible and others couldn't praise the work in this report more highlighting the areas to improve. So wonderful work everyone and thanks for the chance to be involved.

 

SIMON DARCY:
Thanks very much, Murray. Barbara I'll just get you to progressed the slides. Already...we've already said a little bit about... The teams that we work with. For those of you that don't know about the Australian Research Council Linkage Grants this is about bringing relevance to academic research through making sure that the research is about problems for industries and also there are national priorities. So it was just fantastic when Jock and I were able to work with SSI, National Disability Services and breakthrough and the teams that we have listed there. Dina who you'll hear from later, Tadgh who's been a fantastic research manager, Merenia and of course, Violet. A lot of people know Violet from all sorts of areas that SSI are involved in. With NDIS apart from Kerrie who's talking today Gordon Duff's just been fantastic in giving us his wisdom and direction around this disability research generally. And Paul Musso. And Ben Droll from breakthrough people solution had been there at the beginning and even well before this project kicked off. and Janice Ollerton as well. So I just want to acknowledge those...those groups and also that we've had long relationships with each of those organizations. So this type of research isn't about cold calling. It's about well-developed relationships with deep understanding of what each of us needs to achieve out of this type of research. Thanks, Barbara. Just pop forward. Now, I've got the honour of introducing the Australian Human Rights Commission's disability discrimination commissioner Dr Ben Gauntlett. Ben's been in the job since May last year. Prior to commencing as Disability Discrimination Commissioner, Ben has worked as a barrister in Western Australia and Victoria with a broad ranging practice. He has also worked as an associate to the Honourable Justice Kennedy Hayne AC. at the High Court of Australia as counsel assisting the solicitor general of the Commonwealth and taught law in Australia and the United Kingdom. I'm sure Ben we can find a spot for you at UTS. They're popping every now and then.

He's got bachelor’s degrees in law... law honours and commerce from UWA. He picked up a Rhodes Scholarship from WA. for 2003. He went on at NYU to do a Master of Laws and then a Doctor of Philosophy of Law at Oxford, where he studied as a Rhodes scholar. I spent a bit of time trying to work out what the Rhodes Scholarship was for. We know with Bob Hawke it was for drinking. We know with Tony Abbott it was for boxing. Luckily for Ben it was for swimming because otherwise he wouldn't have been able to complete the swim from Perth to Rottnest Island with a team of friends a few years ago which is a tremendous achievement in itself. So I'd like to hand over to Ben today for the launching speech.

 

BEN GAUNTLETT:
Thank you Solomon for that kind introduction. Swimming is probably, putting it loosely, glorified drowning, maybe a slightly more accurate description of the swimming technique that I had when swimming to Rottnest, but ladies and gentlemen, our distinguished guests, good disability policy benefits all Australians. It is innovative, evidence-driven and able to adapt to changing circumstances. I too wish to pay my respects to the Gadigal people of the Eora nation and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. Today is an important day, not least because I have the pleasure of launching a report in relation to an area that I'm passionate about, being work and employment, but also because it reflects a changing focus in Australia from looking at our survival mentality for people with disability to a participation mentality for people with disability. Professor Simon Darcy, Professor Jock Collins and Dr Megan Stronach have produced a report entitled Australia's Disability Entrepreneurial Ecosystem experiences of people with disability, micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship. That is indeed a bit of a mouthful but here after all refer to it as the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report and the report was sponsored by the University of Technology Sydney, Settlement Services International, National Disability Services and breakthrough your choice.

In a sense, disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report perhaps reflects the challenges that people with disability in Australia face more generally. The report does this by referring to the social ecological model which looks at intrapersonal, interpersonal organisational, community and policy level considerations affecting people with disability. It finds that people with disability are 43% more likely to be self-employed than non-disabled Australians. But because of things such as block mentality which is cause... sorry, blocked mobility caused by a mismatch between the skills and the labour force being a factor and also factors like the increased autonomy offered by self-employment people are moving into self-employment and entrepreneurship. At all times the reporting knowledge is a critical issue. That is that the surrounding social ecology of the individual entrepreneur with disability is important. Today I would like to make three points.

First, meaningful participation of people with disability is not just about human rights. It is good business. But there is always a role for recognising impediments to equality of opportunity. Second, barriers to the inclusion of people with disability are physical, informational, attitudinal and the product of self-perception. One of the attractions of the research undertaken is that whilst or one of the attractions of research rather is that whilst research concerns people the people involved are often treated as behaving rationally. Sadly, we know in real life that not all people are rational or reasonable. Third, I'd like to consider the lasting effects of the corona virus on Australia. In doing so we need to understand the dangers of isolation and the potential for violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation people with disability to occur. Whilst much angst has arisen as a result of the corona virus the importance of technology, entrepreneurship and innovation has also become apparent particularly for people with disability.

The disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report correctly notes that the diversity of disability that exists in Australia. Almost 18% of Australians have a disability. Many of those individuals with a disability have a disability that is unseen. Approximately 80% of disability is acquired in the totality of a person's life. In a sense therefore some individuals may think disability policy does not apply to them. It is likely in time they will realise it does. When considering overseas references to disability, it is also important to note that the distinction between older citizens and people with disability which is a by-product of our social security system does not exist overseas. Although many citizens. who are older I'm not in a sense referred to as having a disability in Australia. That is not the case. When we look at disability policy in Australia we future proof the country.

Australia ratified the convention on the Rights of persons with disabilities in 2008. Some 11 years later it was reviewed by the committee on the rights of persons with disabilities in Geneva. The committee found that the response of Australia to its convention obligations was inconsistent. It is important to acknowledge that in Australia there are many good policy ideas and frameworks for people with disability. However, there are concerns relating to implementation. This requires evidence to be gathered, to be assessed, to be discussed and to be analysed. This has... clearly occurred in the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report that has been compiled. There is quite obviously a human right to employment. But employment can often be thought to be an individual working for a large organization.

In the new economy where innovation's favoured, where technology can change how and where people work from, where an area with little res... an area where little research has been done is for people with disability is in the area of micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship. In this respect the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report is a welcome and much needed piece of scholarship in Australia and throughout the world. I enjoyed very much reading the report because it emphasized both the motivations of people with disability undertaking self-employment. Some of which were to work in fields with people with disability and some of which were not but also sought to address the structural and motivational issues as to why people with disability may not avail themselves of certain career opportunities in the future. The benefits of people with disability in self-employment is obvious. They can work in a flexible way and deliver better outcomes for consumers. The background of the person with a disability can be an advantage. When someone asked me what I should employ someone to disability often raise the issue that if a person takes three hours to get to work in the morning there is every likelihood they very much want to be present. Similarly, in the area of self-employment motivation is a critical factor and can be indicia of why people with disability do well.

A diversity of life experiences can create a better understanding of customers too. But at the same time as noting the strengths of people with disability in employment and self-employment disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report highlights the bureaucratic issues that can make it challenging for a person with a disability to be an economic participant in Australia and the need for confidence and family support to commence certain roles. Networking and social structures are important. We have known these and other diversity characteristics and attempted to reduce the negative effects of their existence or need but in disability this gap is often left undiagnosed or fails to be acknowledged. Therefore whilst the business case is obvious for people with disability and self-employed or entrepreneurship it is not divorced from a need for an understanding of the need for equality or opportunity.

The National Disability Strategy is being reviewed this year. It is a decade long policy that was interesting to by Commonwealth State Territory when local government to give effect to Australia's obligations under the convention. Perhaps most importantly the National Disability Strategy acknowledges the barriers to inclusion for a person with a disability and not just about ramps for wheelchair users or funding for support programs but can be attitudinal and informational. It is easier when a person gets older to forget the uncertainty and awkwardness of trying to embark on a career. Fortunately, the report compiled relating to disability entrepreneurship understands the challenges that can be faced from motivational point of view.

 Earlier this year, before social distancing measures were implemented the Australian Human Rights Commission undertook consultation with young people with disability regarding employment. The stories were heartbreaking. My suspicion is that the reason for the negative employment outcomes was more of a result of a lack of awareness by employers than intentional exclusion. But I recall when a participant commented, "After all that how do you expect me to get up out of bed and get a job?" I had a lot of sympathy for their position. Mentoring incubators, access to information and for want of a better expression coaches can all reduce the confidence gap for people with disability. But at the same time, we need employers, customers, suppliers, financiers and fellow business owners to have progressive views towards inclusion. When information is provided concerning self-employment and entrepreneurship. It is important that the information is supplied in an accessible format. Accessible information includes information that is understandable.

The self-isolation and physical distancing requirement caused by the corona virus can exacerbate the disadvantages faced by people with disability in Australia. The wider societal dislocation caused by these health measures has meant that accessing such things as home care can be challenging. But to overcome the challenges caused by the corona virus there has also been a reliance on technology. Working from home, use of online platforms to acquire support, smartphone apps that can trace contexts and the digitization of information and other processes has created the potential for inclusion of people with disability. People who may have struggled in employment in a large organization with rigid rules may now be attracted to the flexibility offered by micro-enterprises, self-employment and entrepreneurship which may now become normalised. Time will tell us to the extent to which barriers faced by people with disability have been increased due to the corona virus. As with any problem an initial step in dealing with it is to acknowledge and try to scope the relevant issue. But the status quo and returning to the status quo should not be thought of as the only solution. Much like a self-employed person or entrepreneur. we need to innovate. In conclusion. I don't know all the authors of the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report. Well, I only know Simon. When I have issues relating to disability policy in Australia and want someone to use someone for a sounding board. I often seek him out. He is wise and considered. It is therefore perhaps unsurprising that the disability entrepreneurial ecosystem report of which is a system in authoring is wise and considered. It shows a depth of understanding of people with disability in society. It is an excellent piece of scholarship which he and his fellow authors an organisation sponsoring the research should be commended. I hope it is the first of many outstanding research reports that are produced in this field. Thank you.

 

SIMON DARCY:
Wow. Thank you so much, Ben. That was a terrific review of the landscape of aspects of employment, entrepreneurship and just what faces people with disability in no...in times before COVID and what we're currently going through now. Thank you so much for that wonderful launching speech. As Ben mentioned within that report the industry partners that were involved have played a terrific role in giving us insights into the industry and employment generally together with self-employment. I'd like to ask Dina Petrakis to talk for a few minutes about SSI and in particular her role. Dina exemplifies what an industry partner brings to these programs but she also offers more warmth, passion, a sharing nature and provides such wonderful insights. She has quite a work history and social justice program across the Asia-Pacific region. She has a master's in literacy and adult education. And she has made a wonderful asset to the SSI since 2013. She was the first Ignite facilitator and then in 2017 she became the director of the IgniteAbility program. So I'd just like to hand over to Dina to speak to us for a few minutes. Thanks very much Dina.

 

DINA PETRAKIS:
Thank you, Simon. I feel slightly nervous following such illustrious company. Thank you for putting me after Dr Ben Gauntlett, the Disability Discrimination Commissioner. I must say for someone who can barely swim I am absolutely impressed with anyone who can go from Perth to Rottnest Island. Also thank you to Dr Dean Jarett for your beautiful Acknowledgement of Country. As part of Reconciliation Week Settlement Services International would also like to acknowledge that this is a time to reset relationships and connections with Indigenous people with respect. Welcome everyone. Today's event celebrates the spirit and strength of entrepreneurs who overcome the most incredible challenges to attain their dream. It celebrates the determination and passion of a special group of people who are proof that commitment with the right support can lead to fulfilling social and economic participation. Settlement Services International is an organisation that values diversity, respect and social justice and as such we were proud to partner with UTS on the ARC Linkages research partnership. It was one way of honouring and implementing these values for people living with disability. We know that the number of people with disability who are of working age is increasing and the disability rate for Australians of prime working age I think at the moment is currently around 15%. That's a large portion of our population and we also know that people with disability have their own aspirations, needs and patterns of participation in employment. These are the factors that influence the development of the non-welfare-based IgniteAbility model which we established in 2017 to provide people with disability the opportunity to turn their entrepreneurial passion into possibility. It's based on the successful Ignite model which by the way was evaluated by Professor Jock Collins in 2016 and IgniteAbility offers the same human-centred principles of respect and self-determination to people living with significant challenges.

In under three years, IgniteAbility has supported over 100 entrepreneurs with disability and this includes 40 young people 58 people from cold and refugee backgrounds and three people from the LGBTIQ community. To date, we've helped approximately 45 businesses start up and we have a long list of active clients currently being supported by our facilitators. In our journey, we have unearthed entrepreneurs who have a passion for helping other people with disability. In other words turning their lived experience into a viable surface offering for their own communities. For example, a young man called Haydon Payne who piloted his own self-designed workshop programme. Another young man, Thomas Kuzma who launched his online platform, TK Hubworld which is a mentorship resource. A very young Kylie Bishop with her coffee delivery service challenging and changing perceptions about people with intellectual disability owning and operating businesses. These entrepreneurs took a huge risk and it paid off with support. We also work with entrepreneurs who have multiple barriers to economic participation in addition to living with a disability. Many lack financial literacy skills, business acumen and business communication. Many have a history of institutionalization. We have supported these entrepreneurs to start their own businesses in food which is why I've put on six kilos over the past three years. Thank you, Simon and Jock. Photography, public speaking, the arts, technology and the trades. All of these entrepreneurs inspire not just people with disability, they inspire all of us. However, we did not do this alone. Helping us on the IgniteAbility journey is a long list of valued supporters and in particular I would like to acknowledge at a time the effort, the wisdom and experience provided by professors Simon Darcy, Jock Collins, Dr Megan Stronach and SSI's own Tadgh McMahon. But none of this would have would have been possible if not for the work of our amazing IgniteAbility facilitators who I know are listening today. Merenia Marin, Alexis Klein, Tatjana Lukić-Co and the very newly minted Jackie Gilligan whose energy, drive and unwavering support keeps our fledgling entrepreneurs on task and on track which is not always easy to do. I also acknowledge the work of our incredible resource team of volunteers, partners and stakeholders. Lastly can I say it is a powerful thing to witness the successful transformation and empowerment of another human being. At SSI we are so very proud to be part of this transformation and we are absolutely committed to the inclusion, acknowledgement and understanding of people living with disability in our society. Thank you.

 

SIMON DARCY:
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for that, Dina. Lots of things for us to think about but one point in particular that the SSI deal with all the time it's multiple...multiple areas of disabili... of disadvantage and in the academic world. We know the problems with intersectionality and the increased marginalization of groups that might have one, two, three or four forms of marginality that they deal with on a daily basis and how that excludes people from being likely to get the services that they require to reach their potential in our society. Thank you very much for that. I'd like to add just to introduce Kerrie Langford. Kerrie is the person from the NDIS team and in particular works in the area of disability employment over the last 35 years. We've benefited from a lot to do with Kerrie and her extensive networks sector. In her current role at NDIS Kerrie has oversight of two key business units within NDIS including disability employment services, Australian disability enterprises, social enterprises, transition to work programs and the interface with the National Disability Insurance Scheme. And this is an area that NDIS have been absolutely fantastic. And Kerrie in particular in getting us in front of NDIS policy makers and decision makers at their conferences and making sure that we're front and centre trying to wedge a little piece of the disability employment puzzle and make sure that it's on the agenda with those groups. So I'll just pass over to Kerrie for a few words.

 

KERRIE LANGFORD:
Thank you very much for that, Simon. Gosh, I mean I think you make me sound far more important than what I am. So look I would...I would like to acknowledge Dr Ben Gauntlett, Professor Jock Collins, Professor Simon Darcy and Dr Megan Stronach as well as actually our fellow partners so at Settlement Services International, breakthrough and all the people who've been involved. I mean this has been absolutely fantastic and exciting piece of work. We all know that up until now very little research has actually been undertaken in this area. We all know the important role employment plays in our lives. Meaningful work whether paid or unpaid is essential to our wellbeing. It provides us with a sense of pride, identity and personal achievement. It enables us to socialise, build contexts and find support and in many instances it defines us. The spectrum of employment supports for people with disability needs to expand to enable the entrepreneurial spirit and innovation this ground-breaking research reveals. If we are to shift consistently poor employment outcomes to people with disability in Australia then options such as inclusive start-up support, business incubators tailored to the specific needs of people with disability and evidence-based programs for school leavers should all be priorities for investment. I'm really keen to view the minutes that we're about to see soon because they bring some very inspirational stories and I think bring home to me how important this piece of research has actually been. NDIS welcomes this research and we really are looking forward to our continuing participation aimed at improving employment opportunities for people with disability. I want to keep this short today because I'm very keen for us all now to share the benefits and I'll hand back to you now, Simon. Thank you so much.

 

SIMON DARCY:
Thanks so much, Kerrie.

OK. Just get Barbara to click the screen over. We've (AUDIO DISTORTS) a little bit about ARC Linkage Grant and you've got a fair idea now the combination of the university and our industry partners with a three-year project it was an important project. And we started off with ABS. The ABS data are looking at that ABS data and interrogating it further. Unfortunately, the ABS have been cut back significantly in what they used to do so it's up to people like us to invest the time in making sure that data is analysed and the insights are brought to light and brought to light so organizations can use them to improve the life for any of the target populations. So we get a combination of qualitative and quantitative research looking... at this new area in Australia and we're also going on to look at action research...well, we have looked at action research with IgniteAbility program. If we can just come over the page, Barbara. And we know that behind... we know that behind... this work is a terrible history of economic and social exclusion of people in the traditional employment sense. And I don't have to go over that ground. What I would say today is that this is report one and so it's focusing on the journey of entrepreneurs with disability. It involved interviews with entrepreneurs that's actually below the 60s now. We're just continuing to analyse as we go. The stakeholders and then we brought back those people that had been involved in both the survey and the interviews to present some of the preliminary results and also do a co-design workshop with that group and they... and many of them are here today and you're about to hear some of them. We had two surveys, one that we did ourselves and as I said one that we got information from the Start-up Muster. But... oh and by the end of June no pressure guys we've got the second report which actually focuses on one of the programs. What are those self-employment programs? What are those micro-enterprise programs? What are those entrepreneurship programs that exist? And so that it's going to be a little bit of a landscape around that. And then it's the action research that we've done with IgniteAbility that looks in-depth at a program that's customized for the individual with disability, their support needs, their intersectionality, in assisting that in a very bespoke way. But rather than taking you through the minutiae of the stats which I love. Or looking at a lot of the dense text. We also think video vignettes. And that's what we're going to look at now. So the report itself... looked at business enterprise motivation barriers enablers, outcomes and benefits. And I just want to give you an insight into two of those areas. The first of those areas, is the business enterprise. And so I'd like Barbara to play the video now.

 

EVA SIFIS:
My business is named By Accident ironically enough because I sustained my disability via an accident. I was hit by a car in 1999. I sustained a severe brain injury. By Accident is a series of trainings for other people that have an acquired brain injury. I give tools, tips, and strategies based on my own wide ranging experience.

 

ANDREW MEDDINGS:
I have a swimming pool building business and I've also the last three and a half years. I've designed a manufacturing business for manufacturing our own pools. So, pretty well a one stop pool shop is our business.

 

EMMA GEE:
I am an inspiration speaker and author. which basically focuses on working on keynotes, conferences, and workshops and consultancy

 

GREGORY MACKAY:
I am an author illustrator. So I write comic books for children, graphic novels, that sort of stuff.

 

JOHN MOXON:
My main business enterprise was a consultancy in disability access. I was a disability access consultant, if you like. That business offers three main services to access physical access audits of premises, access audits of policies and procedures for an organization and training for staff particularly, in communicating with people with disabilities particularly, for frontline staff.

 

JULIE DUONG:
My business is about empowering solutions, and what we're really about is just empowering. the voice , choice and control of people with disabilities to live the life that they want to live.

 

BRUCE STRAW:
Aquaponics projects which is education, training and assistance to people with disability, indigenous people, at risk and vulnerable people, disadvantaged youth, that sort of thing.

 

BRUCE CAMERON:
Easy Access Australia is a travel guide designed specifically to meet the information needs of people with an access requirement so, they could be wheelchair users. They may have limited mobility but need the space, need an accessible bathroom etc. So, it was a document to specifically provide some detail on the sort of accommodation.

 

SIMON:
OK. That first video had of a proportion of people that were doing what we call user led business enterprise. They'd seen a need within the disability community. They've got an insider's understanding of that need and they've got a skill set and that's an important thing to remember, just because you've got a disability doesn't make you an entrepreneur and somebody that can pull all this off. So, it's a particular skill set. Those people all had a combination of background and education that put them in that position. The last person was a chartered accountant. A person before had been a builder. Another person there was actually a racing car driver. So, there are different... There are group of people with a certain skill set and see opportunities. Yet half our respondents had developed enterprises but non-disabled purposes. The first one I like, winemakers, transport operators, landscaping, I.T. What we also found that there was a difference between our survey and the start-up lifestyle. While there was some similar variety of industry engagement including education transport bag, there were two major differences. The first and not surprising given the nature of the survey there was a greater entrepreneurial involvement in tech related industries including social media software development, medtech, biotech, the Internet of things, artificial intelligence and some very successful virtual and augmented reality. The second was that there was much lower levels of these enterprises being disability specific. Only about 15% so, 85% were general. If we could click over to the next slide. This is about the benefits and outcomes people get. Sorry.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

Cooler music than that one.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BRUCE STRAW:
The long term outcomes is to be able to give people employable skills in those actual areas. But then, also for them to become self-empowered to then either run the business themselves and or become educators to elders and other people in other areas.

JOHN MOXON:
Having a business that actually contributed to the betterment of society. There are organisations that because of my reports, because of my training provided a better service or a better environment for people with disabilities and that's a good feeling.

ANDREW MEDDINGS:
I don't really like working for a boss. I'm not a very good person to have a boss. I would probably make more money if I had a boss. But it's just not my thing.

EMMA GEE:
I'm not accountable to anyone but myself, which is a good thing.

JAYNE BOARDMAN:
You can work from anywhere you want; you can work from home. You can work at six o'clock in the morning, right through till 5:00. You can do a 5:00, you can do a nine to five or you can still be working at midnight if you feel like it.

LINDA HOLT:
The main benefits and outcomes of having my own business look, it's independence. I like to create something; I want to help people. I want to be financially secure. I wanna be my own boss. I just want to get people out there doing things. Hopefully, I can encourage that.

ANDREW MEDDINGS:
And I'm not going to make a million dollars anytime soon, but certainly not starving, I enjoy life. I get to holiday quite a bit. So, it's all good fun.

BRUCE CAMERON:
It didn't make me a millionaire, but it made me more responsible for what I was doing and more in control and more autonomous.

EMMA GEE:
But I definitely found that balancing my physical and emotional needs meant that I needed that flexibility.

EVA SIFIS:
I have a viable business model and I've got a business model that will supply, support and understanding and space and community to a very, very marginalised sector of the community which is actually 2% of the Australian population. Did you know it? 2% of the Australian population have brain injury and yet nobody knows anything about it.

GREG MACKAY:
I think the main benefit is being able to work on projects that I believe in and that I love and that other people like as well. If it doesn't quite work out there's always the next project. It's just about consistently working on that until you can find something that you're happy with.

JULIE DUONG:
They've been able to increase their participant intake by 50% with people with disabilities so that's been incredible to see the success at the end because you don't often get to see that as a business owner while you're doing your day to day activities.

CHRIS PARKS:
We're also fortunate that we worked in an area in assistive technology where our products and services achieve great positive outcomes for other people. And I'd like to think that we paved the way for some new ways of doing things back in the day.

MALCOLM TURNBULL:
There are so many great outcomes and benefits. One, I had a role that I really enjoyed I was passionate about. I got to travel the world I got to meet new people, new business partners who became friends. I got to see the best of the products in the world and actually, got a reputation down here as a great company to deal with. There was also a sense that we were contributing to the wellbeing of other wheelchair users or people who needed our equipment so that for me was a real sense of satisfaction and it was great to be the initiator of the culture and to develop that culture and see other people buy into that culture and vision.

ANDREW MEDDLINGS:
Just life. Life's too short just to do... Just to be doing something you don't really enjoy doing. So, I love work, so it's not like I'm doing it to make money and go home and then retire. I don't think I ever will retire; I love doing it. People's just own hang ups their own mind that restricts them. It's probably the biggest restriction on anybody achieving their goals. So, from mine, it’s just freeing your mind up and being open to new things and working out new ways to actually achieve your goals.

JOHN MOXON:
I'd encourage anyone who thinks they have the skills and the ability to start their own business to do so. You'll find it a hard but rewarding experience.

(VIDEO ENDS)

 

SIMON:
We can we can see from that many, many very positive outcomes but one of the things that really came through was that whole area of wanting to do more than just for the personal. There was a sense that they wanted to show the rest of society that people with disability have abilities and can contribute and contribute not only to their own growth but just to the community more generally. Barbara, if you could click to the next slide. Now, please download the report and have a look at what the analytical frame, one of the analytical frames that we've used. So, Social Ecological Model of Disability Entrepreneurship starting from the person going to the interpersonal communication etc. Looking at organizations and their role the broader community and a public policy environment. And it's really interesting, I could talk for hours on any one of those levels. But at the public policy level one of the interesting things was that Australia's great community safety net whether that be the pensions, the health system but they're also bureaucratic stifling. And in this case the self-employed or people on the entrepreneurial journey very difficult to navigate and in fact stifle innovation. So, we've reported quite extensively around that area that hasn't come up in the literature anywhere around the world. So please, download and have a close look at that ecological model. I'd just like to conclude with some of our key findings and key messages, I will come with the key messages just in a sec. So, we found these range of industries and businesses that have started up, much broader than many people would have thought. And there's a press release out that talks about stereotype busting. The other thing that this report does is move from disability as a homogenous group to disability as a complex diversity of individuals with different types of disability requiring different types of support needs. What we also found was that a lot of people that are in these studies are people with, who are either independent or have low to moderate support needs. There are a lot of people with higher levels of disability that are not as, there haven't been accommodated for as well as they could be in this space as well. There is definitely a gendered consideration within employment and entrepreneurship. The ABS literature says that there's a much lower level of self-employment for women and we know generally in society the glass ceilings got away... got in the way of a lot of things.

However, in our report both on the surveys and the in-depth interviewing it was very close to a 50/50 split. We've identified a myriad of barriers, motivations, outcomes and beliefs at each of those level. And we've also identified what we call the paradox of disability and that is that we identified a lot of barriers people with disabilities face setting out on their own businesses. But an overemphasis on the barriers that people with disabilities face can lead to a deficit model approach to disability entrepreneurship, one that focuses more on what they can't do and less on what they can do. Yet their urgency, determination, and abilities to overcome the barriers is present and is above what the general public, the general population do. So, this helps explain what we call this apparent paradox of disability entrepreneurship in Australia. People with disability face very high barriers, yet they have a much greater rates of entrepreneurship than other Australians. And this is the apparent paradox because once attention moves to the urgency of people with disability and their abilities to overcome constraints in their lives, the high rates of entrepreneurship become explained. So, a really interesting little sort of insight into the way that it all works. So, not so not surprisingly, our key messages have to do with education, the need for it to be inclusive. That people need networking and mentoring opportunities. Sure with disability role models and you get disability support but also, just to have that social capital in the business community. So very important, we need to deal with government, the Social Services bureaucracy to make it more flexible particularly where people's cash flow is going through big changes as they're starting off.

And like other reports on disability has a lot to do to change the culture and attitudes to be more inclusive of groups trying to forge their own economic journey. Now because of that the importance of family and friendship units is greater than what most entrepreneurs have. Without those networks many people wouldn't have got started off. And that, also goes back to refugee groups, indigenous groups as well. But also, because of that, there's so much more reliant on their own financial resources and support. Now, being part of Murray's fantastic start-up communities incubate... accelerator programs and incubator programs gives you access to understanding how you can raise capital outside of your own support networks whether it be pitching competition... competitions, whether it be crowdfunding whether it be angel investors, whether it be having trips to Silicon Valley like one of our entrepreneurs who has come back from and there will be a special on TV very soon about this individual and tapping into the venture capital markets in the US. So that's our key messages and it's summed up with that quote there, ''For myself what really held me back during the phase of the start-up was actually just knowing where to go, who to go to. Having a mentor or having a role model especially, with a disability that I could look up to.'' So, on that note, Barbara if you go to the last slide on that note I will say thank you for everybody that's been here. Ben, thank you for that amazing launch speech. It was absolutely terrific. I can't wait to get a copy of it. To our entire industry partners we couldn't have done this without you. For all of you in the audience there, Click on to the website. Actually, if you just go to Google and go UTS entrepreneurship study and this will come up and there's links to five videos, other resources that we've done and a copy of the report, download it, talk about it, get on the social media. So, I'd like to open up for a few minutes of questions from anyone from the audience or any questions that people have put up on the board that Megan's collected. So, thank you. Thank you very much.

 

MEGAN:
No questions on the chat board. People might want to put their hand up and ask a question.

 

MURRAY:
What do you find most surprising?

 

SIMON:
Thanks Murray. What was that?

 

MURRAY:
What did you find most surprising in this work?

 

SIMON:
I, in a way, Murray I what I found... So, what I found surprising but knowing a lot of people with disability, I shouldn't have, we had people that had been too, I'm not exaggerating. Hundreds. They sent out hundreds of job applications. They'd been to tens of interviews where they got down to, in some cases the second in the third interview, and they just wouldn't get the job. So, the young lady that was one of the young ladies that was on the on the video there before. Sorry, I just forgot the name again. I don't have it up in front of me. She was so exasperated and she was so well educated and so had so many skills to offer. But she just went I'm going to have to do it myself. Because she couldn't put herself through the standard recruitment processes anymore. She'd never been successful in standard recruitment processes. Now, Ben and I last night talked about the one of the problems with people with disability and getting a job. Think back to, I can think back to my pre disability life. I worked at Woolworth's as a packer. And a night filler and a checkout chick.

I worked at as a builder's labourer. I did all sorts of jobs. And when you're younger you don't know what you want to do. You don't get those experiences. And so, for a lot of people with disability, they're not even getting the first chance to get their foot in the door. They're not even getting that first chance to fail. And to learn from those failures and to go again. So I think that the absolute desperation of some people, Murray, was something that we shouldn't let the next generation have to go through.

 

MURRAY:
Thank you very much.

 

MEGAN:
Leona asks was there, Were there any differences in the findings between different types of disability?

 

SIMON:
Well, we're certainly seeing that there are different types of jobs that may pick up on different abilities and may make some people more suitable to them. What we are yet to be able to say categorically, is that there is consistent between group difference in what those jobs are. So, I'm putting my statistical hat on here at the moment. There are certainly some patterns but they're not being shown out to be statistically different. What we did find as we said was in the videos that definite difference gender wise around self-employment. But not necessarily around the types of jobs that people are taking. And again, that comes down to sample size. So, we have got... We have got some more data coming in on all the time. on the quantitative so, I'll report back if that is the case.

 

MEGAN:
OK, and Hussein asks what areas of further research do you see coming out of this work?

 

SIMON:
Well, I think without a doubt, in the area of and it will come out in the second report, looking at the program responses. and how those program responses may suit some people and not other people. So, mainstream accelerator environments, they're cohort based, their team approaches. And so even people with disability being able to get exposure to a team environment. Where it doesn't have to be their single idea it's complementary skills that come together while others maybe at the beginning of the journey require that really best practice because of the disability type. So, looking at that nature and there was two rounds of funding through the NDIS ILC capacity building where maybe 14 or 15 programs are being funded. So, we're in contact with those guys to see what we can learn from those experiences and that'll be partly in that second report. Particularly around micro enterprise where there's been a lot of work around people with intellectual disability, who are the lowest levels of self-employment and some of the highest levels of unemployment.

 

MEGAN:
OK, a question from Eva. What's going to be done with this report? What do you see eventuation from having achieved these findings? What she really means is if it's just going to be lost in the drifts of paper or will change be facilitated?

 

SIMON:
Eva, that's a great question. You know I like you have been... Have been, our experiences have been that we get somebody I call them you know sort of helicopter ecologists they fly in they take a snapshot they fly out. Nobody ever hears about what the research is. Nobody ever knows what's done with the reports and you feel like you've been involved but it's made no difference. Our research team, Jock, Collins, myself, Megan, we're all people that spend time making sure that those reports are put in front of people. We work actively with our communities and our industry partners to move on to programs like we've just spoken about and improving those and making sure. And I know it's very hard to say at times what the direct results have been but we are already seeing a change with the NDIS for the first time recognising, in there the NDIS participant employment strategy for the first time they've had the words in there. Self-employment entrepreneurship and they've put a target on increasing the employment rates of people with disability from the current 25% to 33% in a three year period. So, that gives us a lot of solace that we're going to be able to get in there and assist in bringing about change. And if you go back to the productivity commission report, that the NDIS was really based on. It was based on improving the employment rate and getting people off long term welfare. We know that to be on long term welfare does nothing for a person's self-esteem. It keeps them out of economic activity and with the current state of COVID as well. We're going to see some really interesting, I feel programs around disability employment generally. And also, better supports in place for self-employment, microfinance and entrepreneurship.

 

MEGAN:
OK. One from Bronwyn. Re-access to capital is there scope for the government maybe through the NDIS to establish a low interest favourable term loan facility a bit like the Indigenous Bank of Australia?

 

SIMON:
Sorry, just repeat again.

 

MEGAN:
Re-access to capital. Is there scope for government maybe through the NDIS to establish a low interest bankable term loan facility a bit like the Indigenous Bank of Australia?

 

SIMON:
OK. Fantastic idea Bronwyn and certainly, we'll be coming to people like yourself to learn from other marginalised identities and what's been available. The obvious area is gender to see what we can learn from gender and of course, in the indigenous area because that access to capital is highly problematic for people who are more marginalised and don't come from. backgrounds where resources are easy to easy to gain. Thanks very much for that.

 

BARBARA:
May I just step in. It can even be based on an endowment model like the Aboriginal bank councils and other foundations where you know just the interest of NDIS funds can support capital so, it's lots and models.

 

SIMON:
Yeah and also around also things like... Well, if you end up with disability business, are they proactive things that can be done around procurement, for example. To make sure that those businesses are actually able to supply something. I've learnt a bit, Bronwyn you'll be happy to know around parks over the last few months and how we can also maybe talk to the philanthropy community about work in this space where we know we've had success, in the refugee space in the migrant space. I saw Max with his hand up.

 

MAX:
You are right. Yeah, just one observation I've got.
When it comes to securing funding for entrepreneurs with disabilities. There seems to be, in my experience, so little middle ground. Saying on one hand, you've got either a person funds a couple of disability focus accelerator streams, and then on the other hand, you've got the massive NDIS grants. And I don't see very much tailored for people with disabilities in the middle at all.

 

SIMON:
Yeah and Max, thanks for those observations that I certainly know with your experiences over the last few years with your start-up that came through the remarkable group that middle ground of you know, where you can go from maybe getting a few thousand dollars, some crowd funding. But not being able to get to that next level that's required because they are asking for you know that they're asking to see a lot more progress around the business model than what you may be able to give at that stage of the business. And so you end up in a position where well, we've got a pretty good start but we're not able to get into that mid-level where maybe some Incubators that are linked to venture capital, angel investors, etc. can move you up to that half a million or that million dollar investment that you really need to develop. Whether it's tech platforms or take the product to full production from a prototype. So thanks very much for that comment, Max.

Any others? We are getting under a 0.510416666666667 and we did say we try and finish around 12. No, others coming. OK well, I'd look I'd like to add it's been a great turnout today I'd like to thank everybody we've also got some general comments that we've got and with the same system. They'll be downloaded and so I'll come back to people that made those comments. I'd just like, again, to say thanks very much for turning up. That the... we, as Eva has suggested, we really want to be involved in the change process and so, anyone that would like to help us with that or give us some ideas on taking this project to the next stage etc, please feel free to get in contact with myself, Jock or Meghan. I've been speaking a lot, Jock, would you like to make a comment to finish up f or us today.
Ah, you're silent again. It's not me doing it to you Jock. I'm not sabotaging.

 

JOCK:
OK. Am I still silent?

Here we go. Look, I'd really like to thank everyone from the journey we've had, right from the very start to this particular report. I think it's a terrifically innovative field of study one of the most important ones that I've ever been involved in and I think it is terrific policy implications that you know one of the questions was, ''Well, what's going to happen about this stuff not just another academic report to work on the shelves?'' And I think that in this particular climate albeit of course hampered terrifically by the COVID crisis and moreover. But I think with the new NDIS and the opportunities in this space are really starting to well open up. So, I'd like to thank very much all our informants who were from a disability entrepreneurship background hearing your stories, meeting you, you know, sort of getting all that information. It's been terrific for me and our team and we wish you all the best in your business future. For our industry partners, you know once again, you know we wouldn't exist. This project wouldn't exist with that your support, your trust, your input, your networks and we value those greatly. So once again, I think that hopefully this is just the beginning of partnerships rather than the end. So, thank you all very much.

 

SIMON:
Megan, anything you would like to say?

 

MEGAN:
Thank you, just having been the one sort of talking to people quite a lot. I just want to thank the people that I have spoken a lot to, in particular our guests Dina and Merenia at IgniteAbility, not only just great professionals to work with but really where a whole lot of fun as well. And Kerrie, and all the other participants in the project who are some of whom are here today and sort of saying goodbye. But thank you, because everyone was really really helpful and so happy to be involved and share their knowledge and experiences so generously with us.

 

SIMON:
I'd like to also just offer my thanks to Megan and Barbara. and Barbara sitting there on the tech today. As being that person I know how anxious we all get. Just making sure that the tech works. And all the background work that both you done putting together today and so all the work around the field work as well. So and just lastly, I would go back towards that breakthrough, Ben and Janice, thanks again. They didn't feel the need to speak today. But their work's been much appreciated as well. So, I suppose that brings us to the end of this session. But please get onto the website and have a look at the other videos download the reports see some of the resources that are there and that's going to be slowly building up over the rest of the year with a section on where to go to government resources etc.. Particularly, coming out of COVID and we're finding out where to go, what to do, and who to see. Who's making the decisions and moving forward with making sure people with disability are no further disadvantaged and living in poverty than they are today and looking for continual improvement. Thanks very much. The end of the meeting. Thank you.

 

BARBARA:
Thank you Simon.

 

SIMON:
Get on your screens and wave.

 

JOCK:
Bye.

 

MEGAN:
Patience.

 

SIMON:
OK. Thanks very much.
 

JOCK:
Bye. Bye, bye, bye.
 

SIMON:
OK. Well done guys.

Obviously, I forgot to hit record.

 

MEGAN:
Oh, no.

 

SIMON:
Now I saw it about halfway through Jock's intro. And I've got I've got a mate here today, Matt. So, I got Matt to cause I couldn't quite get round to the mouse. So now, we've got the recording. AI Media thank you very much.

 

BARBARA:
Yeah I realized too that as Jock was speaking so I went to press the button and you'd already passed it. The blind leading the blind quite literally at this point.

 

SIMON:
Now, one of the things I wasn't sure if AI Media is still there. I couldn't see captioning coming up. So, I'm not sure whether... So you could?

 

MEGAN:
I could not, I couldn't see no.

 

SIMON:
So, I just We'll get a report on that. I know they are still there. So... Don't forget you have a full transcript. OK, that's cool.

 

MEGAN:
There was a message of a couple of scroll up a bit. Simon, there's a message from Cole... I can't remember Cole's other name, but himself, Gary, Alan, and Bob
(CROSSTALK)

 

SIMON:
Sorry, OK, say thanks.

 

MEGAN:
I did and (CROSSTALK)

 

SIMON:
AI just came through so, people that require their captioning you've got to press on the button.

 

BARBARA:
Oh, OK.

 

SIMON:
That's good, that's good. So in other words we didn't... the person...

 

BARBARA:
We didn't say it because we didn't need to.

 

SIMON:
Ah, that's correct

 

MEGAN:
Oh well, so there was one who'd asked for it there. So I hope she did. She probably would've known.

 

SIMON:
Yeah I know, so on I must remember that because I actually like...
Yeah, I actually like having the captions showing. So, do that. Make sure we do that next time. I think it will improve learning too.

 

QUESTION – So tell us about your business

Eva Sifis:              My business is named ‘By Accident’, ironically enough because I sustained my disability via an accident. I was hit by a car in 1999 I sustained a severe brain injury. By Accident is a series of trainings for other people to have an acquired brain injury. I give tools tips and strategies based on my own wide-ranging experience.

Andrew Meddings:          I have a swimming pool building business and I've also in the last three and a half years, I've designed a manufacturing business where we manufacture our own pools. So pretty well a one-stop pool shop is our business.

Emma Gee:        I am inspirational speaker and author, which basically focuses on working on keynotes conferences and workshops and consultancy.

Greg Mackay:    I'm an author illustrator. So I write comic books for children, graphic novels that sort of thing.

John Moxon:     My main business enterprise was a consultancy in disability access. So I was a disability access consultant if you like. That business offered three main services. To access, physical access audits of premises, access audits of policies and procedures of an organization and training for staff, particularly in communicating with people with disabilities and particularly for front line staff.

Julie Duong:       My business is about empowering solutions and what we're really about is just empowering the voice, choice and control of people with disabilities to lead the life that they want to lead.

Bruce Straw:      Aquaponics projects. Which is education, training and assistance to people disability, indigenous people, at risk and vulnerable people, disadvantaged youth, that sort of thing.

Bruce Cameron:                Easy Access Australia is a Travel Guide designed specifically to meet the information needs of people with an access requirement. So they could be you know wheelchair users, they may have limited mobility but need the space, need an accessible bathroom etc. So it was a document to specifically provide some detail on that sort of accommodation.

QUESTION: What were your reasons and motivations for starting your business?

Linda Hilt:            So the reason I started my NDIS business was to help disabled people. I'm one myself so I think I just have a unique skill set so that's why I wanted to help them improve their lives.

Chris Sparks:      The assistive technology game I was seduced into by a bunch of mates who wanted to take my experience with retail and systems and combine it with a vision for a new business.

Emma Gee:        I was in some way wanting to relay my knowledge and expertise as a therapist with other patients and families and therapists.

John Moxon:     Having worked in the public service, New South Wales public service for 15 years, and experienced several amalgamations of departments and every time that seemed to happen my job would disappear, and I'd have to apply for other jobs that I didn't necessarily want. The main motivation, I have to confess, is I really wanted to work for myself and I wanted to at the same time be in a business that was contributing to the community rather than just making money.

Julie Duong:       Oftentimes I did go to interviews and I would never quite get the job offer. So I thought…. “Hey, I have a lot of skills and knowledge so why not start something on my own that I can impart to other people similar in my situation?”.

Eva Sifis:              I just want to be able to educate others and I want to also give people with brain injury a sense of community. Which is something that many people with brain injury are divorced from community after their injury because most people don't want to be reminded that we are mortal beings living in this in the shell of a body that is fallible and has the ability to - to stuff up.

Jayne Boardman:             I'm helping people with disabilities meet their goals through their NDIS funding and help them become more independent, access services they need and empower them to do their own coordination in the future. Because support coordination funding is short-term.

Greg Mackay:    The motivation there was to move out of sort of an amateur and advanced hobby into a much more professional approach. Something that I want to do in the future it's sort of my purpose if you like.

QUESTION: What were the main barriers you encountered in starting your business?

Andrew Meddings:         I really didn't find many barriers. The only initial barrier was getting a truck license after I had my accident. There was a ruling in New South Wales that a person with more than 50% disability of use of their body could not drive a truck so I challenged that in court and became the first person who's a paraplegic that has a semi-trailer license. But I just sort of feel like I make my own luck and go with what I’ve got.

Chris Sparks:      Some of the key barriers frankly were to do with premises and finding a facility which could accommodate myself and other workers with disability.

Bruce Straw:      The other obstacle of course then is also the funding. The grants, the loans, that sort of thing because so many of the business startups and the courses and the grants are for a business that already exists. So quite often a course or a funding grant is not for someone such as myself who is at the conception stage of the project. It's for “Oh you've got a business, you've got a building, you've got a place of business, here is some money to help you with that business that's already up and running”. Rather than you have a project you would wish to get up and running - we will give you the training and the information and the infrastructure and the funding to get that up and running.

Julie Duong:       For myself what really held me back during the phase of the startup was actually just knowing where to go who to go to. Having a mentor. Having a role model. Especially with a disability that I could look up to.

Emma Gee:        I need support and that’s a constant struggle.

Lind Holt:             I know how to help people. It's getting it out there, and also the challenges of being disabled. You often have illnesses more so than most people. So spending time in hospital and still trying to run a business. I recently spent three months in hospital and I was having meetings lying down in bed, so those challenges a lot of people don't have to deal with.

Malcolm Turnbull: First of all was accessibility. So the main barrier is that that I encountered first of all was accessibility so trying to find a facility that was accessible both for myself and for staff.

Eva Sifis:              How do I sell this? Who's going to buy? Who’s going to pay me? Because this ultimately is going to be my way of getting off the pension. Becoming autonomous, of becoming self-reliant, of becoming independent and it's so difficult to find people who will invest in my in my courses because everybody just seems to palm me off now to the NDIS - but the NDIS only caters for 10% of the disabled population and many of the people on NDIS aren't people with acquired brain injury because NDIS is so difficult to get on.

QUESTION: What were the main facilitators that enabled the business to get off the ground?

Greg Mackay:    People believing in me.

Malcolm Turnbull: So the main facilitators for our business to actually start and grow was: 1. We had a really good product and it was really important for us. 2. I had the finances to be able to invest into the company and 3. I bought into a company that actually had two other wheelchair users who were partners with us. One of those had a really sound business mind, the other one was a total optimist so he was always encouraging. They supported me, they challenged me, they encouraged me. That was really important.

 Eva Sifis:             I was successful getting a grant from the Department of Human Health and Human Services (DHHS) in 2014. It was called the Ethel Temby scholarship. That offered me the platform to build By Accident. So I got mentors, I got a website built. I developed a training with the help of mentors. Mentors have enabled me to build myself. I rested, I think, on about five mentors during the entire process.

Julie Duong:       So with the introduction of the NDIS I think it's opened the door to opportunities for people with a disability to go out and do more in the community, whether they wanted to economically contribute or socially, recreationally etc. I think the option is there for them to explore.

Linda Holt:          I've just started with CSR. Hopefully they'll be able to help me move forward with my marketing. Friends and family are always there. I did actually go through the NEIS program. Unfortunately, that wasn't that helpful. It has been a struggle to find people to support but I still keep moving forward.

Greg Mackay:    It took some key people and perseverance on my own behalf to sort of make the publishing aspect a reality.

Jayne Boardman: I had no idea how to start a business, so through a friend of mine they gave me details about IgniteAbility, a government-funded service through Settlement International Services.

John Moxon:     Networking. Having worked in the public service for quite some time I had an extensive network of people working in government departments and also in local government and I was able to draw on the people in those networks to alert me to contracts that I might want to put in for and also of course they knew my name knew what I was doing and are able to contact me and suggest that I put in for particular contracts as part of the tendering process.

Jayne Boardman: Main details of what you need to do to get started in a business they've also linked me in with a one to one financial mentor as well as developing my website and putting together business cards, fridge magnets and fliers.

Chris Sparks:      I was very fortunate in that I worked in open employment all my life and through that I've built up a lot of business skills and I had some very good mentors and through the careers that I had I've built some good business skills which helped me get established. I also was part of a partnership. We had a whole range of skills including one very senior businessman who acted as a mentor when we built the business in the early stages. We very much understood the needs of our customer base and that gave us an urgency and a customer service without ever letting our values down to bend to the to the squeakiest wheel if you will…… of the whinging person with disability. We just try to do a bloody good job and provide great service.

Greg Mackay:    You have to put in a lot of hard work, but you also need an opportunity, and I was lucky enough to be given that opportunity.

QUESTION: What were the outcomes and benefits of having your own business?

Bruce Straw:      The long-term outcomes is to be able to give people employable skills in those actual areas but then also for them to become self-empowered to then either run their business themselves and/or become educators to elders and other people in other areas.

John Moxon:     Having a business that actually contributed to the betterment of society. There were organizations that because of my reports, because of my training, provided a better service or a better environment for people with disabilities and that's a good feeling.

Andrew Meddings: I don't really like working for a boss. I'm not a very good person to have a boss. I would probably make more money if I had a boss but it's just not my thing.

Emma Gee:        I'm not accountable to anyone but myself which is a good thing.

Jayne Boardman: You can work from anywhere you want you can work from home. You can work six o'clock in the morning right through till 5:00. Or you can do a five….. you can do a 9 to 5 or you can still be working at midnight if you feel like it.

Linda Holt:          The main benefits and outcomes of having my own business look its independence. I love to create something. I want to help people. I want to be financially secure. I want to be my own boss. I just want to get people out there doing things. Hopefully I can encourage that.

Andrew Meddings: And I'm not gonna make a million dollars anytime soon but I am certainly not starving. I enjoy life. I get to holiday quite a bit so it's, it's all good fun.

Bruce Cameron: It didn't make me a millionaire but it made me more responsible for what I was doing and more in control and more autonomous.

Emma Gee:        But I definitely found that balancing my physical and emotional needs meant that I needed that flexibility.

Eva Sifis:              I have a viable business model and I've got a business model that will supply support and understanding and space and community to a very, very marginalized sector of the community which is actually 2% of the Australian population did you know that? 2% of the Australian population have brain injury and yet nobody knows anything about it.

Greg Mackay:    I think the main benefit is being able to work on projects that I believe in and that I love and that other people like as well. If it doesn't quite work out there's always the next project and it's just about consistently working on that until you get something that you're happy with.

Julie Duong:       They've been able to increase their participant intake by 50 percent with people with disability, so that's been incredible to see the success at the end because you don't often get to see that as a business owner while you're doing your day to day activities.

Chris Sparks:      We're also fortunate that we worked in a an area in assistive technology where our products and services achieve great positive outcomes for other people. And I'd like to think that we paved the way for some new ways of doing things back in the day.

Malcolm Turnbull: There are so many great outcomes and benefits. One, I had a role that I really enjoyed, I was passionate about, I got to travel the world, I got to meet new people, new business partners who became friends. I got to see the best of the products in the world and actually got a reputation down here as a great company to deal with. There was also a sense that we were contributing to the well-being of other wheelchair users and people who needed our equipment. So that for me was a real sense of satisfaction and it was great to be the initiator of a culture and to develop that culture and see other people buy into that culture and vision.

Andrew Meddings: Just life. Life's too short. Just to do….. just to be doing something you don't really enjoy doing. So I love work, so it's not like I'm doing it to make money and go home and then retire. I don't think I ever will retire. I love doing it. People's own hang-ups, their own mind set that restricts them is probably the biggest restriction to anybody achieving their goals…. so from mine it's just freeing your mind up and being open to new things and working out new ways to actually achieve your goals.

John Moxon:      I'd encourage anyone who thinks they have the skills and the ability to start their own business to do so. You'll find it a hard but rewarding experience.

 

Hello everyone and thank you for joining us at today's event.

0:05

Firstly, I would like to acknowledge that wherever we are in Australia, we're on the traditional lands

0:11

of First Nations people. I acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora nation upon

0:18

whose ancestral lands that UTS City campus now stands. And also from home where

0:24

I'm joining from today. I pay respect to the elders past and present,

0:29

acknowledging them as the traditional custodians of knowledge for this land.

0:34

They're ongoing connection to country and culture. I further acknowledge the traditional owners of

0:40

the country where you are joining us from and pay respect to their elders. So hello or in my best, Gadigal -

0:48

‘budyeri kamaru’ My name's Simon Darcy. I'm a Professor in the Management Department at

0:55

UTS Business School and the co-lead of the UTS Disability Research Network,

1:00

which this event is being auspiced by today. It's my pleasure to be

1:07

welcoming you all to today's conversation on entrepreneurs with disability, macropolicy and organisational considerations.

1:16

I'm delighted to be joined by a distinguished panel of speakers from our industry partners.

1:21

Dina Petrakis is from Settlement Services International International and the IgniteAbility program

1:27

and Paul Musso, stepping in for Kerrie Langford from National Disability Services today,

1:34

who is dealing with some serious issues with the lockdown and disability service provision.

1:40

and we wish her the best First, some housekeeping.

1:46

Today's event is being live captioned. To view the captions, click on the CC closed caption button

1:54

at the bottom of your screen in the Zoom control panel, we're posting a link in the chat now,

2:02

which will open captions in a separate Internet window if you prefer. If you have any questions

2:09

during today's event, please type them into the Q and A box, which you can also find

2:14

a your Zoom control panel. You can also go in there and like other people's questions,

2:21

we will have time to put some of your questions to our panellists. I would now like to welcome

2:27

our Vice Chancellor, Professor Attila Brungs to say a few words to launch our second report

2:35

on entrepreneurship in Australia. Thank you, Simon.

2:41

And a very warm welcome. I add to Simon's welcome warm welcome to all of you joining us here today.

2:46

Thank you very much. I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land,

2:51

and not just for their ownership of the land, but as traditional owners of knowledge for these places.

2:57

And at UTS, we believe knowledge is at the heart of our university and it needs to be

3:02

at the heart of all of our approaches to support society. I've said this time and time again. So deities, people are pretty bored.

3:09

But we are a public institution. And that means we exist solely for public good.

3:15

That's the only reason universities exist. And it's not just for those who pass through our doors,

3:21

not just for the students we work with, but for those all around us, those connect with us, with all society.

3:26

Now again, that's easy to say, but much harder to do. That's a real focus at UTS. how do we make sure

3:32

that aspiration is a reality? We do that in many ways: through the development of

3:37

our incredible students. who go out and shape the world around us or positive through; through our partnerships

3:42

with the community around us, such as today's, through our research and importantly, the use of knowledge with our partners,

3:49

to solve specific issues, to lead critical discussions or debate in society.

3:55

and solve particularly, I think intractable or wicked problems. As you'll probably hear in my voice,

4:01

I'm incredibly proud to introduce the work of our Business School researchers and partners, who with this

4:06

first national study of disability entrepreneurs across Australia. have uncovered findings in

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this area where research is scant and we can make a real significant positive change.

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This report highlights the importance in general of evidence-led policy.

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Not just all over the place, but particularly disability employment and the self-employment space as

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we understand employment is a key area of disability citizenship. At UTS, we support

4:35

a culture of inclusion and we are committed to removing the systemic barriers that prevent the full and equitable participation and

4:41

representation of all people across academia, our workforce, and our students. But, we know that disability is

4:48

part of the diversity of human experience, with nearly one in five Australians having some form of disability.

4:53

But when it comes to employment of people with disability, Australia unfortunately ranks poorly behind many nations,

4:59

particularly OECD nations, 21 out of 29. This is one of the reasons why evidence-led

5:05

policy to promote inclusive outcomes in disability employment is so absolutely critical.

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Such an understanding will support Australia's capacity for developing evidence-based policy initiatives to increase

5:16

the number and particularly the success of entrepreneurs disability. This report highlighted some hard truths

5:23

that as education providers we must pay particular attention to. People with disabilities are twice as likely

5:30

to be unemployed than those without a disability, and twice as likely to be living in poverty. Labour force participation has

5:37

constantly only been around 50 percent, much lower, 25 percent for anyone with higher levels of support

5:43

that are the recipients of the NDIS. And entrepreneurs with a disability do not

5:48

have the same access to support that mainstream programmes provide, such as boot camps, mentoring,

5:55

pitching competitions, and access to finance. The research also shows that

6:00

entrepreneurs with disability in Australia, were driven through necessity of poor employment outcomes together with a passion and

6:06

desire to give back to the community. So now we've seen through this report that entrepreneurs with disabilities,

6:12

no matter what the type, have a commonality of experience that identifies some significant

6:17

systemic issues. These need to be addressed. These need to be addressed in order to make

6:23

future entrepreneurial activity easier to achieve this group of people, but for the benefit of our whole society.

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And on that note, I'd like to congratulate Simon, Jock, Megan and all of our industry partners here

6:35

today on the project. The national disability services, settlement services international and the breakthrough

6:41

people solutions for their findings and the work on this very important topic. It is clear that this report has provided

6:46

another piece of the jigsaw puzzle to to better understanding, authentic understanding,

6:52

of disability self-employment, micro enterprise and entrepreneurship, and the importance they play in

6:57

addressing employment disadvantage and empowering people to forge their own paths through life.

7:02

Again, not just for their own benefit, but the benefit of all society. So once again, congratulations

7:09

everyone and I look forward to hearing today's discussion. Thank you. Back to you, Simon. Thanks very much. Attila for

7:15

those kind words. I would also like to acknowledge that

7:21

diversity and inclusion had been part of UTS's DNA for all but

7:26

the first few years of my 30 year working life. I say that to make the point that

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most organisations need to make a conscious decision to change

7:37

to a more diverse and inclusive organisational culture. Slaying words are relatively easy,

7:42

but making strategic change across all units of an organisation, like a university is

7:48

highly complex and nuanced. I can say without any hesitation,

7:53

that UTS had some difficult conversations in those early years, but undertook a strategic change

8:00

over the history of its five Disability Action and Inclusion plans across students,

8:06

academics, the tower, and professional staff from the bottom-up and top-down.

8:13

Prior to going to the panel, I will provide just a brief overview of

8:18

the second report because I understand that some of you may have not been here for the first report as well.

8:24

Sarah, could I just get the first slide up please? Thanks very much. Could you go to the next one.

8:31

So I just like - next slide. Thank Sarah. Just

8:37

acknowledging the other members of the research team, Professor Jock Collins is a real guru around

8:43

minority entrepreneurship in Australia. And our post-doctoral fellow, Megan Stronach.

8:49

She's done some excellent work in the disability space over a long period of time.

8:54

Go to the next slide. Thanks. This was the product

9:00

of an ARC Linkage grant, that Jock will be saying a little bit more about in a moment. But we can't do

9:08

this type of research that's deeply engage with industry, with our industry partners.

9:14

So with SSI, Dina will be talking today, but also Marianna

9:21

and Violet, the CEO and we've had a long history of involvement.

9:27

with SSI; National Disability Services Kerri, Gordon and Paul

9:32

and Breakthrough People Solutions, Janice and Ben. If we could go to the next slide, please,

9:39

Sarah. Report one really focused on the lived experience of

9:46

individuals with disability through qualitative, quantitative and co-design work.

9:51

Report two focuses on at the organisational programme level

9:57

looking at self employment programs, micro enterprise, an entrepreneurial programmes as

10:02

they relate to disability. We then have a detailed engagement with IgniteAbility program

10:09

and I will not say anymore about that because Dina will be talking about that in a moment.

10:15

Next slide, please, Sarah. So we took a social ecological approach

10:22

that looks at the interpersonal, organisational, community and

10:27

civic society and public policy macro-environment and today we're commenting on

10:34

that public policy macro space and the organisational program space.

10:39

Next slide. Thanks Sarah. And yeah, just press the button again.

10:46

When we looked at mainstream self employment, micro-enterprise, and entrepreneurial programs

10:52

with the assistance of Murray Hurps from UTS Start-ups, to identify the 44

10:58

mainstream programs for us. only three of those programs, or around 7%,

11:05

had any mention of inclusion within that program

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and that's a major issue around our education, but also access to

11:17

those other parts of the entrepreneurial start-up world. Next slide. Thanks Sarah.

11:25

The report also did an environmental scan of government supports in this space.

11:32

And many people would have heard of the Disability Employment Services and Australian

11:37

Disability Enterprises where a great deal of money goes towards

11:43

supported disability employment and they are currently undergoing a major review

11:48

through the Department of Social Services at the moment, so it's quite timely. Job Access is a program

11:55

open to individuals who have employment to get reasonable adjustments

12:00

made and really shatter that stereotype of some employers that

12:07

disability employment will cost them too much because those costs can be underwritten

12:12

to a very high amount. The NDIS, National Disability Insurance Scheme,

12:18

has a participant employment strategy and that's been a tremendous inclusion

12:24

since this research had started. We found a program in Victoria, where a voucher systems is provided

12:31

to get entrepreneurs with disability, the education they need and there's also the new

12:36

enterprise incentives scheme. We also did a scan overseas and the report,

12:42

contains that information as well. Just the next one, please, Sarah. So when we scoped,

12:49

out the self employment, micro enterprise and entrepreneurial program space,

12:55

we found a variety of programs and like all good academics, we like to have some form of

13:02

way of typing them. and so this continuum we have called

13:08

a continuum of self employment. and entrepreneurial programs starts with general self employment programs

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Then micro enterprise programs that particularly focus on getting a person with a disability.

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And a lot of those programmes relate to people with intellectual disability into a business that they can run

13:31

themselves and do so with a good supportive scaffolding around them.

13:37

And that's done on a one-on-one basis. Then there's the micro-enterprise cohort programs

13:42

where people go through that program in a group of people with disability. There's an entrepreneurial program that

13:49

again is one-on-one. and why these points are so important is that disability is quite diverse

13:57

Mobility, vision, hearing, intellectual disability, learning disability, mental health.

14:03

and depending on the inclusion required and as a Attila noted in his speech,

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there's much lower levels of employment for people with disability with higher support needs.

14:16

So those higher support needs sometimes aren't met by mainstream programs.

14:21

So there are also entrepreneurial cohort programmes. And there are entrepreneurial platform

14:29

online programmes with specialist disability inclusions. There is a program

14:36

that focuses on disability tech business outcomes that has a component

14:43

of inclusion for people with disability in those teams and finally, there are

14:48

the mainstream programmes. Next slide Sarah.

14:56

Next slide, Sarah, thanks. So the programme is reviewed for this research are on

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the left-hand side of the page, including IgniteAbility, Remarkable, Challenge Project,

15:07

Community Living Project, Vanguard Services, Valued Lives and InCharge.

15:13

We also note that there Disability Leadership Institute has

15:19

an entrepreneurial program, an online platform program is Chemism

15:25

and there's also a new network for Australian

15:30

disability entrepreneurs that started up just in the last nine months. We also acknowledge that the NDIS

15:37

and Department of Social Services, have invested in the self-employment and entrepreneurial space

15:43

over the last three years. And it's unfortunate that COVID has intervened,

15:49

but those programs also indicate the importance that's being placed on this area. Next slide, Sarah.

15:57

And so as noted before, our major case study and working in very close relationship

16:06

with the wonderful people at IgniteAbility is a main chapter in

16:13

this document and identifies the approach taken by

16:19

Dina and her team. and it is at this point now that

16:25

I will hand over to Jock to do the introductions of our

16:30

panelists and also take over for the rest of the seminar.

16:37

Thanks very much. Jock.

16:42

Microphone. Jock. Microphone.

16:49

You're on mute, mate. I'm sorry about that.

16:54

I'm a neophyte in terms of being at the University of Technology. I've only been here for 45 years.

17:01

Apologies for that. Thanks Simon. Thank you all for coming to the launch of this research report.

17:08

I'd like to thank the Vice Chancellor for giving up some of his valuable time to open this webinar.

17:14

And I think the fact that he has given time given his very busy schedule is

17:19

an indication of the extent to which the university really takes its social role,

17:28

its social impact, in research and teaching very important.

17:34

And as Simon mentioned, This project was funded by

17:39

the Australian Research Council through the Linkage Projects scheme and I don't know

17:45

whether you're familiar with this, but what happened is that the ARC gives money

17:50

and funding to the research, but so too do industry partners to buy into that particular research.

17:57

The idea is this joint collaboration between the university and the end uses of this research

18:03

is a very important sort of direction of Australian research funding. For this particular research project,

18:10

as Simon mentioned, our industry partners were Settlement Services International,

18:16

National Disability Services, and Breakthru. And I really want to thank

18:21

these organisations from the bottom of my heart for this commitment. We couldn't have undertaken

18:27

this research without them not only their financial commitment, but they've been involved

18:33

right from the start. We've met with them regularly. They've helped to shape the whole project.

18:38

And they've given us access to their networks, their knowledge,

18:43

they've reviewed our reports. So they've really been partners in the active and real sense

18:49

all the way through. And once again, thanks very much for that. So what we want to do now,

18:55

at this phase of our presentation

19:00

is to introduce a few of the industry partners, Dina Petrakis, from Settlement Services International, and Paul

19:07

Musso from NDS and they'll join Simon Darcy for a discussion of the project,

19:13

its findings and its policy implications. Now, you have already met Simon.

19:18

But let me introduce you to Dina and Paul Dina Petrakis is

19:24

is the Ignite Global Manager of Settlement Services International. She's managed social justice

19:31

and international aid programs in Australia, the Asia Pacific including Thailand,

19:36

Vietnam, Vanuatu, Tonga and the Solomon Islands. She's worked in the field of education and training as

19:43

a research with UWS and in community development. In 2013, when I first met Dina,

19:51

she became the first Enterprise Facilitator for the Settlement Services International Ignite Small

19:58

Business Startups Program, which then of course emerged into a IgniteAbility

20:04

I'll also introduce Paul before going to some questions.

20:10

Paul Musso is the policy adviser of National Disability Services,

20:16

is work for NDS since 2008 and has over 20

20:21

years of experience working in non-profit and public sectors.

20:26

Disability Employment Policy Analysis and the development of policy solutions has been

20:32

a key focus of his work since 2008 and in his capacity as a policy adviser

20:39

at NDS, Paul's responsibilities include formulating policy positions

20:44

on disability employment, workforce industrial relations. And Paul has written many of the NDA

20:50

submissions and policy papers on these topics. He's got a degree in economics

20:55

from Macquarie University. So as you can see, we have very qualified and

21:01

experienced industry partners and you can understand how their participation in the project

21:07

is such a critical input for Simon and I. Dina, if I can turn to you first.

21:13

So, what we're engaged in with you is IgniteAbility program,

21:20

a program designed to assist people with disability to set up a business.

21:25

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that. you know, sort of how does the program work What happens? What's your philosophy?

21:33

Thank you, Jock. I am just going to check that I am off mute. Yes. So IgniteAbility came about

21:43

from the Ignite program, which we started as you said in 2013,

21:48

and which you evaluated And we knew we were onto something that worked really well for people who

21:54

came from vulnerable backgrounds. And our principles of working one-on-one on an ongoing basis.

22:01

So when the Linkage grant came along, we thought, you know, let's see how Ignite

22:08

could transfer into the disability space. And so we started together with UTS to look at

22:14

how a program for entrepreneurs. And I've got to say here

22:21

that entrepreneurs are risk takers. They are risk-takers.

22:27

And this does not seem to be compatible with most of the disability support services.

22:34

So we took a risk to say, let's use our principles for

22:40

entrepreneurship with people living with disability. And again,

22:46

it worked really well. We don't motivate, We don't initiate and we don't judge. Decisions are for

22:52

the entrepreneur to make. And risks are for the entrepreneurs to take.

22:59

Of course, all of this being supported by our facilitators. Working with Jock and UTS.

23:06

We noted early on that we did have to adjust our model to include carers,

23:13

family, and support workers. The pace is also,

23:19

we found that our individual entrepreneurs needed to be managed

23:25

in a different way as well. So we adjusted the model while all of this

23:30

action research was happening. And all of this is captured in the report that we're launching today.

23:37

So for me, IginteAbility, the basic premises and the principles of

23:44

our original Ignite model fit beautifully. It allows people with

23:50

disability who want to be self-employed. who want to go into the entrepreneurship space to

23:58

make the decisions and take the risks. And this is what again and again we are finding is really important to them.

24:05

That's what they're telling us. Okay? So in a sense,

24:11

from my understanding of the program, what you do is you walk the entrepreneur from

24:17

the first to the last step in the business. You sort of need develop what we call a

24:24

bespoke pathway for each different one. Can you talk about that. Absolutely. Jock.

24:29

So the IgniteAbility program uses the services of

24:37

an IgniteAbility facilitator, which we train. The facilitator works

24:43

one-on-one with each entrepreneur. Each entrepreneur

24:49

has their own bespoke journey. So the support that we provide is tailored to reach entrepreneur.

24:56

Because we receive entrepreneurs at whatever stage of the business startup they're at.

25:01

Some of them could just have a business idea. Some of them may already be functioning

25:07

in a very hobby or micro-business kind of way. While others actually come to us with,

25:13

some sort of small business that needs a bit of support to move to the next level. So we accept them at whatever level they are,

25:20

whatever stage they are in their business development. And we work with them

25:25

to achieve whatever their goal is. Most of them want to trade, most of them want to expand.

25:32

So yes, it's a bespoke tailored journey. And our facilitator works

25:38

at the pace of each entrepreneur. Our programme is free. So the facilitator service is free of charge.

25:47

It's confidential and it's ongoing. So the other thing we found that works really well for disability

25:54

entrepreneurship is you cannot put a time limit on an entrepreneur's

25:59

business start-up. You cannot say "I will support you for six months and then you're on your own" or "we'll

26:06

give you a month or a year of support" and "then you're on your own." So we found that the majority of

26:13

entrepreneurs require about 12 months of support. Although with some of them,

26:18

because their ideas needs scale, we've been with them much longer.

26:23

What we've also done Jock As you know, and Simon as well, is we created

26:30

now a triage program which is a small bespoke course where we are talk to entrepreneurs to

26:38

let them know what the're in for if they're really interested in starting a business. Because the business world,

26:45

particularly in the last two years, is very challenging, extremely challenging.

26:52

And a lot of people who have an idea that they'd like to start a business aren't really aware of what some of the commitment is

26:59

that they have to provide to this endeavour. So we've created a little two-day snapshot challenging course.

27:09

If you want to start a business, Let's talk about it. If you're still interested, we'll put you in to the IgniteAbility

27:16

program to work with a facilitator. Because we have had such a great response from this,

27:24

short information knowledge acquisition course we are in the process of adapting it through

27:32

another ILC grant, again with UTS. And what we've done in

27:37

the adaptation is we have requested the entrepreneurs from

27:44

the disability program that are mentioned in this report,

27:49

they are designing, they're co-designing the adaptation of

27:54

that little course with us, but they're also going to be delivering it alongside us.

28:01

Because we think it's important for people living with disability to be able to see

28:07

success and to able to see what we call role models that people have actually

28:14

done and are doing things that they have only dreamed about. So that's the next iteration.

28:22

I just wanted to let everybody know that this report doesn't just stop here.

28:27

Its had legs, its grown, it's developed, and it's morphing into something really wonderful.

28:35

Okay. What would you say are the particular challenges that people with disability

28:41

have in setting up a business - say comparing the IgniteAbility program to the general Ignite program you established

28:48

to assist refugees to set up a business? You spoke about it a little bit earlier.

28:54

And it is about the ecosystem of support around them that they need.

28:59

We found that our entrepreneurs living with disability, and regardless of the disability type,

29:05

need a really connected and really competent support system

29:11

and that can sometimes be through care or support workers or family members that are just as

29:17

invested as the entrepreneur within the business. That's the number one challenge they can't do it alone.

29:23

Number two access to finance. Its challenging anyway

29:28

for our Ignite entrepreneurs. And it's even more challenging for regular lender.

29:33

If I can call them regular lenders, to lend even a small loan.

29:40

Because again, they see it as too high risk. So accessing capital is, we found, one of the really big obstacle.

29:49

Testing their product as well or their service we find quite challenging sometimes.

29:57

But they're entrepreneurs and they overcome the lack

30:02

of finance. They can overcome lack of the total ecosystem of

30:09

support around them. I think the biggest, what I find the

30:14

biggest challenge that I have seen is that people don't believe they can do it.

30:23

And that manifests in different ways. It manifests in when we

30:29

go to test the product, they won't provide - you know people we go to, markets, etc.

30:36

won't provide us with the full spectrum of support that is required,

30:41

but they'll say. you know, you can only do it. I'll give it to you for a week and we'll see how we go. And it's like what you just said that

30:47

for any other entrepreneur. Yeah, other entrepreneurs, they pay you $200 and you get a stall.

30:53

So what does this mean? We'll see how we go. Where did that come from? That kind of response from

31:01

the general market in Australia.

31:06

We find to be quite a big challenge. It's, it's how the market sees entrepreneurs

31:13

living with disability as well.

31:20

I might just pop in there and for anyone that so the SPS programme the

31:25

other night on Australia Thinks. And saw some of the entrenched attitudes

31:32

than the general public. The same things exist in an employment sense and certainly in

31:37

an entrepreneurial sense. For people. Judging a person not by their ability,

31:44

but by what they think the constraints of the disability are. And it doesn't matter if you're

31:50

a young kid coming out of school looking for their first job, or in my case, a professor in a business school.

31:56

These attitudes come at you all the time. So, yeah, that's, that's, that's another little interesting obstacle

32:04

that Dina has done a terrific job educating the ecosystem,

32:09

as well as providing a tremendous support and scaffolding to the entrepreneurs.

32:16

Terrific. Thank you. It's a good little segue to my discussion now with Paul.

32:24

So I Paul, I wonder if you could please tell us where NDS

32:29

sees itself in the self entrepreneurship, self employment entrepreneurship landscape

32:36

and how that all relates to the disability employment policy issues

32:42

that your organisation is concerned with. Thanks very much, Jock. Well again,

32:48

This is really a question that goes to I guess,

32:55

that emphasis on people with disability being able to exercise choice and control in their lives and

33:00

to pursue their employment goals. And in the case of many entrepreneurs they dreams

33:06

and NDS has encouraged our members. We have about 200 members of who provide

33:14

open and supported employment services to consider self-employment as one

33:20

of a range of employment options that people with disability can

33:25

access should they choose to do so. Now these obviously include,

33:31

I'll just run very briefly through this list. So there is supported employment which tends to be people with more severe disability.

33:38

Transition models to employment for young people who are leaving school and entering the workforce.

33:44

Mainstream employment where obviously I personal with disability is a employee. Supported open employeement,

33:51

which is where people who might have worked for a disability enterprise work in

33:57

mainstream setting. Social enterprises and firms where the workforce

34:02

is far more mixed and people with disability might only make up a small proportion of the workforce.

34:07

But again, there's social enterprises and social firms that run, that take advantage

34:14

of or have very active roles of people with disability in running those businesses

34:19

that you scored as well. And then of course there's self employment. And I think the work of Simon and his team has really sort of,

34:27

thankfully given this option a profile. So one of NDS's

34:32

most important goals at the moment is to bring the National Disability Insurance Agency

34:38

along on this journey where this model is increasingly recognisedand accessible as

34:44

an entirely legitimate option for people with disability and where those entrepreneurs

34:50

or business people with disability, if they need supports to set up and run their business,

34:57

that they can access those through their NDIS participant plan. So just a brief summary

35:02

at that point. Thanks Jock. Just talking about the NDIS plan supports

35:10

when Simon and I first constructed this research application, the NDIS was just

35:16

about to come in the next year and we thought, well, this is a whole change in the policy landscape.

35:22

I mean, are there, or will there be opportunities for sort of entrepreneurship,

35:28

of with disability in a way that maybe weren't available before. So I mean, how can

35:34

they NDIS participants obtain supports in their plans to set up a small business or engage

35:41

in self-employment at present. Thanks Jock. Again, it's a very timely question

35:47

because a lot of the NDIS has been around now for about, oh oh, seven or eight years,

35:52

the the pricing mechanism for employment supports for NDIS participants

35:59

has recently changed quite significantly. And so for that about a year now there's been

36:05

a new, or remodeled employment supports for NDIS participants

36:11

which is called supports in employment. And again, it's meant to emphasise that

36:17

that principle of choice and control for NDIS participants who are thinking, well, maybe I don't want

36:24

to work in a disability enterprise, or I don't want to be employed by someone I've got a vision.

36:30

I have a particular passion. I'd like to run a business and I might need some form of support

36:37

to be able to do that. And supports employment in principle should be able to recognise that

36:44

and if the person with disability isn't a NDIS participant they should be able to

36:49

incorporate some elements of this supports employment pricing model

36:55

into their participant plan to enable them to access particular supports that will assist them

37:01

to either start up their business or to operate it on an ongoing basis.

37:07

Are there any particular policy initiatives, you think that could or should be introduced

37:13

to assist in this transition to entrepreneurship.

37:19

Jock, to use a horrible cliche, I think what's really needed at the moment is

37:24

awareness raising of this option and that, again, we don't want people with disabilities,

37:30

to be discouraged from chasing their dreams, running a business. You know, engaging in all sorts

37:38

of unusual or what might have been traditionally regarded as employment options or careers

37:46

that they might not have been encouraged to pursue, for want of a better term. Again, I don't like to use

37:52

this term very often, but I think it's all about again, we need to conquer that tyranny of low expectations.

37:58

So where those supports can be provided for people with disability to pursue their

38:05

dream as an entrepreneur or a business person, then the NDIS really should

38:10

be there to facilitate that. Thank you very much. If I can turn to Simon now

38:16

now my colleague from the start, Simon. First of all, can I ask you if there are

38:22

any surprises in the research? When we discussed this many years ago,

38:27

and we were eventually successful and got underway is there anything that surprised you

38:33

in our research journey. That's one of the reasons I've

38:38

always enjoyed research. There's rarely been a project that I've started off with where

38:44

I haven't learned as I've gone. And also been quite shocked at

38:50

times with how far we haven't come as well as how far we have come in some areas.

38:55

I think one of the really core areas that

39:00

Dina did some terrific work on is around the risks space

39:06

and the risks space in the sense of if somebody's on some form of income support,

39:14

whether that be Job Start or the Disability Support Pension, et cetera.

39:20

That you have no idea how stifling to

39:25

innovation government welfare provisions can be.

39:30

So for somebody to kick off a micro-enterprise,

39:35

become self-employed or enter the entrepreneurial world.

39:41

And the reason I, the reason that I do those differentiations is that

39:47

for a lot of people with disability, entrepreneurship didn't really resonate because they've been excluded from mainstream programs.

39:53

So there's a much stronger association with self employment in that sense

39:58

and in some areas, micro-enterprise. So Dina was able to get the person from Centrelink

40:06

in, and make some really bespoke

40:12

policy on the go changes that gave those people the flexibility.

40:19

Because we know cashflow can vary radically and that getting off,

40:26

getting off any form of welfare support is a

40:31

lot easier than getting back on it. So that was, that was something that

40:38

is a major outcome in the sense of this research that this

40:45

didn't really come up in the fantastic research that's been done in the US. There is note of it in

40:51

UK based research, et cetera but it's creating an understanding within

40:57

the welfare bureaucracy that this is a different space

41:02

and these people will have radically different cash flow profiles,

41:07

and remembering it's not just about the person with disability if you've got a family.

41:13

It's also about the family that support is coming through for as well.

41:19

So I would say the innovation space. The the second one. And you can have a policy.

41:26

But as we've seen within the NDIS most recently, unless that policy is

41:33

communicated throughout the organisation - and I won't go through the whole value chain with respect to

41:44

where NDIS has to go, but most people have their plans done by what's called a local area coordinator.

41:51

A local area coordinator then sends that plan on to a NDIS planner.

41:57

If you have your plan done by an NDIS planner, that cuts out one of the chains.

42:03

That's then sent up the line for approval. Now, that means that you need a lot of

42:10

people really well versed in changes that may have only just occurred.

42:16

So certainly the people from when when Megan and I presented

42:23

at a conference for the NDS Conference in Adelaide on employment,

42:31

you know we got commitment from the NDIS representative that yes,

42:36

people can do this in their plan. But the voices of people with disability kept

42:41

telling us it might be the policy, but it's certainly not what my local area coordinator or my NDIS

42:48

person provided. So that's, you know, that's one of the outcomes

42:54

that a social service safety net is fantastic.

43:00

But you need it to also be reactive to a new area of employment service

43:05

that Paul was talking about that might not be well known at this point. So I'll leave it there at the moment.

43:12

All right. Thank you very much. There is heaps more of course we could talk about, but I've got 15 minutes left.

43:18

So I think probably at this stage, we might want to throw this open for some questions to the audience,

43:25

if that's possible. Jock, I've

43:32

got some questions in the chat for you. Okay. All right. We can see that there's

43:39

some questions in the in the chat. Let me just - I can't quite -

43:49

I'm actually on my - here we go, sorry.

43:54

All right. So one question. Michelle Meachem asked,

44:00

did the research identify the gaps in ordinary or entrepreneurship programs that

44:05

are being fed back to improve access and inclusion, rather than specialist disability

44:11

providers? Simon? Certainly, and we have been in

44:17

conversations around that work. But a lot of it is,

44:24

a lot of that Michelle isn't revolutionary as such. It's what we've all known in

44:31

the education space for a while, particularly around alternative communication,

44:37

the need - in this case, we're looking at some if you needed it, there's some live captioning going on today.

44:44

There's also the accessible nature of the course curriculum

44:51

and we know again, with education providers that there's

44:56

a system for that within higher education and secondary education.

45:02

Um, and the, the other components the other components to it,

45:08

are that without those is being in place, then I've got no doubt

45:15

that some of the startup community, are keen when they're made aware of it,

45:21

that I need to do these things to include people with disability. But until that's done,

45:26

people will either not know about the mainstream programs or

45:33

there may be an initial resistance until there's a much better knowledge,

45:40

understanding of what it requires to provide support for individuals with disability.

45:45

And again, I would just say that our research with

45:51

what was called the Startup Muster, which is a mainstream entrepreneurial

45:57

survey of the, of the startup community in Australia.

46:03

We were able to get a disability module put into that survey. And what we found was that about 10 percent

46:12

of the people surveyed in that program identified as having a disability.

46:17

But the vast majority of those people had invisible disabilities and weren't people that

46:25

openly spoke about their disability. So remembering

46:31

that the different disability types, visible and invisible and and also that a lot of

46:38

people with disability with different types of disability should also,

46:44

if they comfortable, speak up about what they need so that these programmes are getting

46:50

demand so that they can think about changing that up. Certainly one of the most

46:56

famous of the accelerator program that I won't name, they had a real basic problem around

47:02

access and inclusion in that anyone with any form of mobility disability couldn't even get into the building.

47:08

And I mean, that's real old-style. That's been changed. And we're seeing that, that a real startup community around

47:16

the Sydney CBD is being invigorated by companies like Google and Microsoft that are doing

47:22

some real cracker work around inclusion in

47:28

both the technical sense, but also in the sense the spaces that they are now using across

47:34

the major dimensions of disability to get those supports in place for the future. Thank you.

47:40

So we've got a second question that starts off by referencing the challenge of connectedness,

47:46

supporting the business ecosystem. And the question is this: Is there already

47:53

an assessment tool or an app that matches an individual's disability type and

47:59

soft skills with company or industry partners' requirements, for example, for jobs,

48:04

business, funding, loan, supplier access - that matches that and other business partners

48:11

with a disability or not? So is there anything like a tool or an app that can assist people in this regard?

48:20

Simon or maybe I don't know whether Dina or Paul have any knowledge of

48:27

any sort of new technology that can assist.

48:33

I certainly know that there's a range of new apps that are doing matching in a variety of senses.

48:39

I haven't seen it in the entrepreneur space at the moment. But it is a great business idea.

48:48

There's a business pitch we have identified here, we will only take 5%.

48:54

The next question is, what's the effect of COVID-19 had on

49:01

entrepreneurs with a disability in Australia, Dina, with your IgniteAbility clients,

49:07

could you maybe talk to that? Sure. It's had an effect, of course

49:13

on everybody. With our disability entrepreneurs it hasn't had a greater effect

49:20

than any other of our entrepreneurs at all. In fact, within the disability

49:27

entrepreneurship space, those entrepreneurs that had consultancies that we're doing

49:33

workshops for certain disability types actually flourished.

49:38

We've got a trio of young men at the moment that are doing Dungeons and

49:46

Dragons for children with autism And they just had,

49:52

their business is increasing exponentially because they've hit that market where they are working with young kids who are at home from

50:00

school and parents can't wait to register their children. We've actually told them to increase

50:06

membership price. But I'll leave you with one short story.

50:14

We've found the area that's been hit the most, of course is retail and hospitality

50:20

because they've had to close and just do takeaway. Amongst all our

50:26

hospitality and retail entrepreneurs, this is across all our programs

50:31

the last person to actually need to shut down, and that was quite recently,

50:37

was a young woman with disability, who had a coffee courier business and was within the report.

50:44

She was the last one. We many closed last year. She just recently had to shut

50:50

shop because she wasn't allowed to go out of her her area.

50:57

So we haven't found our entrepreneurs with disability fared any worse at all.

51:02

Some of them fared better. And in the retail space across all our programs

51:08

it was young woman with disability that had to close shop just recently.

51:14

Thank you very much. Now, we've got a question for Paul from Gordon Duff.

51:20

Who was very supportive of this research grant in the first instance.

51:25

So Gordon's question is, Paul, "Can and NDIS participant

51:32

use part of their NDIS package to engage in a business incubator type program,

51:38

whilst also using supports in employments to continue, for example,

51:44

with open employment or SLES, that is, to combine them?

51:52

Yes. Thanks, Jock. Gordon, that's a fantastic question.

51:57

I would like think yes in the first instance. Now, with supports

52:02

in employment there's two sort of elements of that. There's capacity building supports

52:08

for supports in employment. And then there's supports in employment that relates to sort of ongoing support of a person

52:16

when they obtain a job. They can certainly maintain their job

52:21

in a mainstream setting if they are being assisted by a disability employment service. In regard to SLES,

52:28

I'm not so sure about that. That's a transition program and it's really designed to assist

52:34

younger people to gain the skills and experience they need

52:39

to either be able to then access a disability employment service or to seek

52:46

open employment or perhaps then at that point, if they were so inclined, to attempt

52:52

to commence running a business. So I think supporting employment could almost definitely be

52:58

used in a capacity building sense for accessing that business incubator type program.

53:05

And that would be where the person with disability was engaged in capacity building for

53:12

their business or entrepreneurial project. So I hope that's answered your question.

53:19

But I'm happy to also clarify that with our contacts at the agency if you like.

53:25

Thanks, very much Paul. There's a question which may be a final one,

53:31

depending how are we going for time and it's really about the scaffolding that's required to

53:37

support the disabled participants in the workforce and the question is,

53:42

"will the scaffolds be the same into the future or are they predicted to be different? I think we could probably

53:48

extend this to talk about the scaffolding that's required to support entrepreneurs with a disability.

53:55

What are the scaffold needs and do we envisage those changing into the future?

54:02

Simon, did you want to think about that? I was going to pass that Dina. What we're hoping for is that

54:10

as people, - we've got a much higher level of mainstreaming going through schools.

54:15

We know that schools programs have become very keen

54:21

on developing startup and business skills at a much earlier age.

54:26

We're seeing similar programs running specifically for students with

54:33

disabilities that have being funded through the ILC program, etc. And one of the really big issues

54:40

around disability generally is the lack of a multitude of opportunities

54:45

for people who are born with a congenital disability.

54:51

Are they getting the same opportunities as the next person in their class to them?

54:56

And when we talk to people who have gone through some sort of traumatic disability, they may have had whole heap of

55:04

experiences with all sorts of work that gives them an idea of what they might like.

55:10

So the scaffolding around getting work and work like experiences in either business or just in

55:21

employment itself is really important so people can work out what

55:26

I like to do and not just get a job, get a career,

55:31

so making sure that those experiences are open. But certainly we're starting to see

55:37

some networks develop So entrepreneurs with disability are getting

55:43

that networking opportunity amongst themselves and with mainstreams as well.

55:48

And that's really important because we know the importance of social capital and a lot of

55:54

business isn't done during business time, it's done during other social opportunities for

56:00

either education or fundraising or giving back to the community, et cetera. So I'll leave my comments there.

56:07

Dina, do you have a quick word here? The scaffolding in terms of our program

56:13

really comes from our ecosystem of support. Even with Ignite and IgniteAbility

56:19

we don't just provide business support. So one of the things that has made our business program, so to speak,

56:26

unique is that we take a very human-centered approach so that whatever support the person needs,

56:33

we will provide regardless of the business. So for Ignite, where we work with refugees and asylum seekers.

56:40

It's settlement support because we had people sleeping in cars while they tried to start their business.

56:46

With people who are living with disability, the ecosystem of support

56:51

includes people who are mental health professionals, people who understand autism,

56:57

people who can support us and our entrepreneurs with mobility issues. So we bring all of that to bear for

57:05

the entrepreneur because we realised that unless, uh, you can support those sorts of

57:11

challenges that will never start their business. So we look at a very holistic individual view

57:21

of what the needs are for the person and then what effect this will have on their business needs.

57:27

So our support is not just a business support, it's a whole person support.

57:32

Terrific. What wonderful words. Thank you all very much. It's time. Thank you all for

57:38

attending. As Paul said, one of the key issues is to get this information out and about. Our reports are available.

57:46

Please disseminate them widely. Please let's build some funding and policy support to this area of

57:52

disability entrepreneurship. And thank you all very much for attending today's webinar. Thank you.

57:58

Thank you. And UTS Disability Entrepreneurship report is there and waiting for you now.

58:05

Thanks very much. Thanks, Dina. Thanks, Paul. Thank you.

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